[BTS] Notes on marathon Space Colony

[Wednesday]

Usually 30-40 minutes per turn, although turn 148 took several hours. Turn 163 will be very long too: I've got to plan next 15-20 turns and make some important decisions.

Just planned some failgold. It seems almost too easy, could be a sign that I got it wrong. Another tech I must have before I start first golden age is Calendar. I could spend 20-25 turns waiting for a miracle, that is AI researching it for me. But my GP farms will soon need some happiness boost to keep growing.

Spoiler :

 

[WastinTime]

Have you considered preserving that hut next to the pigs to try to get free Astronomy? I think there's a 10-20% chance of getting a tech--I can't recall exactly. And then you can try to narrow down the possible techs that can come from it with some planning.

 

[Wednesday]

Have you considered preserving that hut next to the pigs to try to get free Astronomy? I think there's a 10-20% chance of getting a tech--I can't recall exactly. And then you can try to narrow down the possible techs that can come from it with some planning.

There are a few cons:
1. Narrowing it down to just Astro requires two useless techs: Drama and HBR.
2. HBR also prevents me from building war chariots - perfect strike sacrifices.
3. I like the 3-food spot with 3 forests. It can grow to size 14 while trade routes are still relevant, or become a decent GP farm.
4. I dislike the gambling aspect of it.
So I did not bother calculating the odds. It is more interesting on Terra where you can usually find 5+ huts on the other landmass.

 

[Wednesday]

Triple food islands are great but you would not give to your vassal, would you? Here is the perfect home for my first vassal.

Spoiler :

Failgold is coming on fine. I expect 5000+ gold with Paya, then MoM and Parthenon about 3000 each.
Paya is under construction in Lisbonne, Oporto will expand borders on the next turn.

Spoiler :

Key GP farms are doing well with 16-19 food surplus. I will have to make more new AIs soon to keep them happy.

Spoiler :

 

[Wednesday]

I have a problem. Gandhi fancies himself a warmonger. If it were a couple of spears here and a few swords there I could deal with that, but 6-8 units per city is too much. Lure tactics probably will not help much: he won't make peace quickly if I suffer significant losses. I can get Construction in 3 turns and whip some cats (HG coming soon)... But it is a detour from Banking and missing the latter costs hundreds of beakers per turn.

Spoiler :

De Gaulle has built a monument in Reims and will soon steal the corn from Paris, which is currently working on a GP for the first golden age. I looked through screenshots and it was not there on turn 155, thus I have until t186, unless he gets some culture boost. Reims with 7 forests (not counting one in Gandhi's terrotory) and a war chariot whip could build MoM. I probably should capture it before I finish the HG (in 4 or 5 turns) anyway, so it does not take forever to grow to size 2.

His other city, Tours, has 10 forests. I can use it for Taj or Kremlin. The latter also requires forge and some overflow, so there is a good reason to take these two cities before I deal with Gandhi.

Spoiler :

 

[Wednesday]

In the meanwhile, my other army converges to Washington. I gave Lincoln Monarchy, if he adopts HR, I will attack next turn. If he does not, I will try CoL. Philadelphie is junk but it would steal tiles from Washington, and I also need to recapture Atlanta before I finish the HG. I will soon need a galley here, preferably super galley, and very luckily, another great general is coming.

Next target is Cyrus (orange). His workers building a road towards a city he recently settled somewhere in the north are tantalizing.

Spoiler :

 

[Wednesday]

Last time I looked Elizabeth did not have many units, but she's got iron. Curiously, out of 13 AIs I have scouted out three had BFC horses, two had iron and one - copper. Anyway, she is very probably third AI which will be difficult (unpractial) to crack without siege. Another way to go about this problem is to take out Lincoln, De Gaulle, Cyrus and perhaps Beth. That should not take more than 16-18 turns (turn 190-192). First GA starts on t200, Banking also t200 or a bit later. Then I can get Construction and Engineering, should not take longer than 8 or 9 turns. Then Philo to have something innocent to trade with Mansa; he should finish CS by this time. I can spend 25 turns from 190 to 215 creating new AIs. Then I get CS from Mansa and switch to slavery for five turns (215-219), whip some trebs and maces and roll over the remaining AIs.
I have questions:
1. Can it possibly be good, not conquering anything for 20+ turns?
2. How am I going to get CS from Mansa peacefully if he is already at -2 with me? I can gain 3 more points for religion and if I use only De Gaulle to create colonies...
3. Isn't it too early for a slavery window? This is likely to be a huge problem.

Spoiler :

 

[Wednesday]

1. Can it possibly be good, not conquering anything for 20+ turns?
2. How am I going to get CS from Mansa peacefully if he is already at -2 with me? I can gain 3 more points for religion and if I use only De Gaulle to create colonies...
3. Isn't it too early for a slavery window? This is likely to be a huge problem.

1. The alternative costs for early Construction are about 1000 beakers (Mercantilism delayed by three turns). How much am I going to miss by capturing several strong cities 20-25 turns later? Probably more than 1000 gold/beakers.
This alone is enough to seriously consider the Construction route first.

I need 3 catapults per city, that is 9 for Gandhi.
Orleans can whip 2.
Paris can build one with a chop.
Guimaraes can whip 2.
Nicomedia - 1.
Lyon - 1.
Hastings - 1.
Thessalonica - 1.
Oporto - 1.

I also need 10-12 war chariots per city, so I will have to attack him with both armies and skip Philadelphie. The usual skullduggery is in order: city gifts to lure some defenders and workers out and CoL to get Gandhi into Caste just before the attack.

 

[Mitchum]

The usual skullduggery is in order: city gifts to lure some defenders and workers out and CoL to get Gandhi into Caste just before the attack.

Interesting. Is the gift city one of your productive cities or a junk city that you just settled? I'm guessing that it has to be somewhat close to his empire or he won't accept it. Then, do you take the city back before he gets defenders into it? I've never tried this but it sounds like an interesting ploy.

 

[Wednesday]

Interesting. Is the gift city one of your productive cities or a junk city that you just settled? I'm guessing that it has to be somewhat close to his empire or he won't accept it. Then, do you take the city back before he gets defenders into it? I've never tried this but it sounds like an interesting ploy.

There are enough junk cities for any purpose. If you look at the Washington screenshot, you'll see three Greek cities that used to be American. I took them and immediately gave them to Justinian. He created a colony (Alex). So these cities have already changed hands more than once. Soon I will move Alex to a temporary home and make De Gaulle create another colony, then repeat it with another AI.

Of course, there are more such cities. I will take back several cities just before I finish the HG. Some I will keep, in others I will just whip away one extra pop and use them again for creating colonies or temporary gifts.

After the HG Nicomedia will whip a catapult, then I give it to Gandhi. I recapture it and keep it size one until Sushi. I see no point building a granary and growing this city when it's got only dry rice for food. It will take forever to pay back and I'd rather Thessalonique used this rice, anyway.

Hastings will whip a missionary and a catapult. It has good food and two forests. After recapture it will get a granary with two chops and grow.

Spoiler :

 

[Wednesday]

Interesting. Is the gift city one of your productive cities or a junk city that you just settled? I'm guessing that it has to be somewhat close to his empire or he won't accept it. Then, do you take the city back before he gets defenders into it? I've never tried this but it sounds like an interesting ploy.

AI will accept any city on the same landmass where its capital is, as long as it is within less than 10 distance from the nearest city (1.5 for diagonal) and the AI in question is not in financial trouble. Giving them Currency usually solves this problem. You can also chain gift cities.

 

[Wednesday]

Turn 178 comparison.
90 AD landing by @WastinTime : 30 cities, 106 population, 22 workers, 540 bpt, -475 gpt, no army to talk about.
Literature, Music, Monarchy, Machinery.

90 AD landing by me: 46 cities, 148 population, 50 workers, 505 bpt, -666 gpt, 32 war chariots and one axeman.
Machinery.

This game: 43 cities, 96 population (141 next turn with HG), 43 workers, 516 btp, -659 gpt. Did not make a t178 screenshot but next turn I had 39 war chariots, 2 catapults and one axe.
Monarchy, Construction, Calendar, CoL, Feudalism.

Since the HoF website is still down I attached save files from the old games in case anyone wants to look into details.

Turn 181 I finish Paya and switch to Pacifism. I need it to get the GE on time (t190) and then GP for golden age (t200). OR costs 182 gpt, Pacifism - 144. But expenses actually increased because I have such a large army: 43 wc, 10 catapults and two axemen. Paying 59 gpt for units and 49 gpt for the military; 108 in total. WastinTime was spending only 22 gpt on units. So he is a kind of wise guy using minimalist approach, balancing development and expansion, and I am a murderous psychopath, running a militaristic police state.

Planned civic changes:
Turn 181 Pacifism.
Turn 186 Representation, Serfdom.
Turn 191 Slavery.
Turn 196 Caste.
Turn 201 Mercantilism.
Turn 230? Slavery, Organized Religion. Hindu.
5 turns later: Buddhism, Caste, Pacifism.

Representation will reduce maintenance somewhat and add 18 bpt. Five turns of Serfdom with some 50 workers effectively add 25*5=125 worker turns. I think this is a big enough gain to suffer 5 turns without Slavery. It also comes with Representation, so every war chariot whipped to 120/60 hammers will produce 60 hammers overflow, rather than 48 hammers I get if I finish them while still in Police State; a compensation for doing some whips a little prematurely.

During t230-234 slavery window I whip Buddhist cities first, then adopt Hindu and whip Hindu cities as I see fit. Before switching back to Caste I adopt Buddhism and make some more whips in Buddhist cities.

 

[Wednesday]

Revised GP plan, based on what I actually have. Only three super GP farms: Amsterdam, Berlin and Novgorod. National Epic in Vijayanagara means that I may end up with just one GS for Biology. May be, I should swap it with GM for Corporation? GM bulbs are smaller but bulbing Corporation will probably shave off one turn to Mining.
300 York - GE for Mining, t191.
600 Paris - random person for GA#1, t200.
900 Novgorod - GS for Education, t209.
1200 Berlin - GS for GA#2, t217.
1500 Amsterdam - GS for Printing Press, t222.
1800 Bombay - GS for Chemistry, t231.
2100 Constantinople - GM for trade misson, t238.
2400 Thebes - GS for Scientific Method, t241.
2700 Persepolis - GM for Economics, t247.
3000 Vijayanagara - GS1 for Biology, t251
3600 Novgorod - GM for Corporation, t256.
4200 Berlin - GS2 for Biology, t261.
4800 Amsterdam - GM for Sushi, 266.
5400 Vijayanagara - GS for Fusion, t310.

Edit: I gave up on Excel long ago because it cannot handle large files, but since for some reason open document format is not allowed, I made a xls file.

 

[Mitchum]

I like the spreadsheet for your GP plan. I do something very similar when I play a Culture or Space game.

Does an early Academy not pay off because you finish research in the BC era?

 

[Wednesday]

I like the spreadsheet for your GP plan. I do something very similar when I play a Culture or Space game.

Does an early Academy not pay off because you finish research in the BC era?

Yes, and larger empire also means bigger bulbs. There isn't much time to develop cottages. Early on I need a lot of units and wonder bread pays off much faster than cottages, so I build mostly farms. Once I am in Caste+Rep and teching its only about 50 turns to Mining, not that much time to grow cottages. By the time they become better than coast powered by Colossus I go into strike and all commerce goes down the drain. So its mostly just coast and scientists. And I could not spare worker turns for it anyway. In mid game workers are mostly chopping, improving mining resources and preparing cities for corp spreading, IW, space ships parts. Those things require cities to have certain number of workshops/mines and that costs a hell of lot of worker turns. One of the improvements in this game will be better planning for corp spreading and the spaceship, using the experience obtained from the previous game.

Edit: Oh, and no cottages means academy does not do much, and before it can bring more beakers than a bulb I'm in strike. Academy is all about cumulative effects: cottages*Bureaucracy*Academy. You need all the components: take one away and the whole thing falls apart, and I'm better off farming, bulbing and running Nationalism, because maintenance cuts are bigger than Bureau boost.

 

[Mitchum]

Makes sense.

I'm rooting for you to land your spaceship in the BC years. Maybe it will force @WastinTime out of retirement too!

 

[Wednesday]

I revised my GP plan. Did not like to depend on Vijayanagara to much. What if I captured it without granary? Or Gandhi whipped away half the population? I could not tolerate such uncertainty and found a way to get all the important GPs without risk. Now Amsterdam will make the 600 for GA#1 and then the 900. Paris will grow and produce 2700 GP, Persepolis will do 3000 instead of 2700, and Vijayanagara will do 5400 shortly after Assembly Line, so comes early enough to be used for GA#4 if it is an artists. There is a little priest contamination in Paris, there will be 0.2% chance to get a Great Priest. Still better than roughly 6% of artist in Vijayanagara.

This requires Caste no later than t192, hence no Serfdom (giving up Slavery on t186 is too early). I get another 5 or 6 turns of OR and then early Caste instead. I thought it would help me with the Colossus, but Mansa built it a few turns before I even got started, but I will make about 600 more failgold with MoM and Parthenon. And I can make some more warriors for police duties, because I do not need copper anymore.

Got lucky with Delhi: Gandhi did not whip or moved in any units, so I simply rushed it with war chariots. Now that I have captured Delhi size 6 with granary, forge (gifting MC paid off) and Artemis (free priest), I may reconsider the plan again and use Delhi to produce the GP for GA#2. That would relax my GP plan a bit, right now its pretty tight.

I thought of making it NE city instead of Vijayanagara, but that would not really make much difference and Delhi will make an exellent IW city or a new capital.

Gandhi is talking at last. There are three archers and an axe in Calcutta. I could take it, but then Gandhi would not talk for a couple of turns and I have to DoW De Gaulle now to move him to an island and start making more colonies. Amsterdam may become unhappy and I can't afford it. Its only size 13 and I can barely keep it happy with just one war going on. Soon I will have silk and dye, in five or six turns Representation will add 3 happy faces, and thats it. After that only vassals can further increase happiness cap. And the bigger cities become the more unhappiness is caused by war weariness.

Can't do anything with Alexander because Mansa hates him. On the other hand, Mansa will trade with me even if he is annoyed, as long as I am not his worst enemy (conveniently, Alex is).

Now I think is the time to make cease fire and move on to Elizabeth.

Spoiler :

 

[Wednesday]

I'd like very much to whip a settler in Delhi. I do not have enough islands for new vassals. Unless I settle some more soon, I will have to house one or two vassals on the mainland. Not the disaster it may seem. May be, I should get on with it? What does it matter if I get one or two fewer cities with Mining in the end, if it saves a lot of trouble now and allows me to use Delhi for other purposes?