Chillaxation
Warlord
Quite instructive. Thank you.
NP/F #1 - Asoka/Monarch
- Thread starter Chillaxation
- Start date
Quite instructive. Thank you.
Chillaxation
Warlord
When he had finished all his teaching, Drona called his students, one by one, apart from the rest. High in a treetop was a bird of straw and cloth for a target; he called Yudhishthira and said, "Take your bow, and aim an arrow to cut off its head."
While Yudhishthira stood aiming at the bird, Drona asked, "What do you see?"
Yudhishthira answered, "The tree and the bird, the bow and the arrow, and my arm, and you."
Drona said, "Stand aside." He called Aswatthaman, and receieved the same answer; and Duryodhana and his brothers, who answered the samel and Bhima and the twin Pandavas, but he let none of them release their arrows.
Then he called Arjuna. "Take aim at the bird's head and shoot when I tell you." Arjuna stood with his bow drawn into a circle. "Tell me what you see."
"A bird."
"Describe him to me," said Drona.
Arjuna replied, "I cannot. I see only his neck."
"Send that arrow!" cried Drona. Arjuna's bowstring sang, and the target's head fell to Earth.
- from the Mahabharata
-----
During this turnset we gained critical information on our geographical and diplomatic situation. I have a major question about game mechanics and I would like to hear readers' opinions about strategy.
T77 - India: writing > alphabet. We shut down to 0% rate to binary tech alphabet. I doubt the AI will self-tech this before I do, somehow - I only see Mehmed and Tokugawa at this point, and the Shogun is loath to trade.
T80 - Vijayanagara: monument > axeman. Delhi: axeman > settler. The military situation is under much tighter control with even a few bronze-age defenders. Time to expand.
T85 - Bombay: library > scout. Bombay works three cottages and runs two scientists, and has most of its help from the library chop overflow. We have one forest left in Bombay's BFC I have no qualms about chopping (the riverside plains to the NW). I'm more reluctant to chop the dry plains.
T87 - Vijayanagara: axeman > barracks. I felt less confident because of a sighting of two barb archers and a spear in T86. In retrospect I think this was a mistake. The barbs eventually attacked elsewhere and even if they hadn't, my warriors have got this for the most part. I'm only planning on building major military in the medium term, not the short term, and I could have used a fast worker instead.
T88 - Delhi: settler > axeman. Still spooked by the barb sightings, I built an axeman. The small advantage of these two builds was that Delhi and Vijayanagara both grew population.
T89 - India founds Pataliputra (site Alfa), and begins a granary.
T91 - The barbs sighted in the E attacked Japan rather than India, as two wounded Japanese military units (a chariot and an archer) are seen close by the Japanese frontier. I see our cities' builds for this turn and think, "Well, that wasn't the finest play." Eventually Vijayanagara's barracks will be useful, and another axeman doesn't hurt miserably, but the builds were far from well-thought-out. Vijayanagara: barracks > settler. Delhi: axeman > fast worker.
T94 - Vijayanagara: settler > fast worker.
T96 - Delhi: fast worker > settler.
T97 - Mehmed converts to Buddhism - but hasn't founded it!
Unless by some crazy circumstance the Japanese founded Buddhism while starting with fishing and the wheel, and managed to spread it while having no contact with Turkey and didn't adopt it...there's at least a fourth civ on this "continent."
Furthermore, it would appear from our easternmost scouting unit that India is in fact isolated on an island with Japan, but has a coastal inlet that connects the southern continent with a more northerly one inhabited at the least by Turkey and the founder of Buddhism.
T100 - Mehmed proposes open borders, so India and Turkey sign an open borders agreement. I agree because Turkey is across a narrow coastal strait from our continent; even if we wanted to prevent them from settling coastally we could not; and while I don't know for sure that Mehmed isn't hated by the other inhabitants of his continent, he's not without friends since he adopted another nation's religion.
India founds Varanasi, which begins a granary.
India: Alphabet > fishing. I decide this after looking at the tech trade table.
Tokugawa is unsurprisingly unwilling to trade any of Japan's technology. I expect him not to be a party to trades of any kind; indeed he is unwilling to sign open borders. Furthermore we know the founder of Buddhism is a fourth civilization, as Tokugawa has not even researched Mysticism.
A bird's eye view of the known world:
A bird's eye view of military units on our continent:
A closer look at our continent. Use the silk tile as reference:
India's cities:
Other notes: Japan has Pyramids, and has not yet contacted Turkey. Japan is running Representation.
-----
I have serious questions about what to do next. The first is informational.
Do continents separated only by coastal tiles count as separate continents for the purpose of the third "overseas maintenance" cost in cities held there? I'm sure I'll find out soon enough in this game, but it would be nice to know from if any gurus reading this know. A semi-serious search through the forum doesn't reveal the answer to this question. If the answer is "no," I'd probably be much more eager to settle the northern continent before I settle marginal sites on the home continent. I'd probably do the opposite if the answer is "yes."
The next few are general policy/strategy questions.
When to attack Japan? I phrase this as "if" not "when" since Tokugawa hates trading techs and is medieval/renaissance backstabber. We're far from isolated, and have at least three civs in this hemisphere even if Japan is eradicated. Therefore there are relatively few tech-trading consequences to getting rid of the Japanese.
Also on the plus side, I suspect that Tokugawa has stone, since he built the Pyramids. I wouldn't mind if India controlled the Pyramids by any means. I also think building them clearly set him back on settling, which benefits us in any war down the line but particularly wars begun sooner rather than later. A further point on the side of an earlier attack is Japan's lack of contact with Turkey; while I doubt Mehmed and Tokugawa would become fast friends, the war declaration penalty is worth avoiding.
On the other hand, Tokugawa is protective and clearly has archery. Scouting units saw Japanese chariots, so he has horses. Moreover those chariots almost certainly rule out an axe-only attack. I think even an axe attack covered by spears might take too long to build an overwhelming amount of units; Kyoto will have 60% or higher defense culturally by the time we could be most quickly at their gates, notwithstanding spies to sabotage walls - and the Pyramids in Kyoto show Japan has masonry, so Japanese cities undoubtedly have walls.
Then the ideal time might be axemen/catapults or even swordsmen/catapults, with spies in each of the three current Japanese cities tasked with sabotaging the walls.
What is the optimal short term tech to research? Mehmed would trade fishing and archery for writing, which sounds fine, but I'd much rather get sailing, which will eventually open trade routes with the northern continent. Mehmed can research compass, so he definitely has sailing. On the other hand if he techs writing in the next couple of turns I only have alphabet to give him - so it might be more advantageous to go straight to aesthetics.
Where do we block land? A very short-term attack on Tokugawa, even if successful, would leave large areas of the home island open, making galley settlement by the northern island more and more likely over time. A later attack on Tokugawa probably implies that India must split its effort between settling to take the choicest sites left in the eastern region, and settling the northerly regions to prevent Turkey - or other northerners - from gaining too large a toehold on the home island.
How do we raise happiness? Our southern island appears to have furs, silk, wine, and whale. A quick capture of the Pyramids negates the need to discover monarchy, but I doubt we can get to Kyoto quickly. This combination of resources together give +6 happiness after teching optics and currency, and taking the painful time to build markets (admittedly for a +3
boost on completion). I think that's a little too fancy for my suboptimal early game, and the quick-and-dirty option of hereditary rule is comparatively advantageous to India led by Asoka compared to civs with non-spiritual leaders.
What about medium term teching? We'll probably have to do some self-teching in the mysticism branch to get monarchy going, as Mehmed doesn't know priesthood and is unwilling to trade polytheism. On the other hand, getting priesthood might make good trade bait. But if looking for trade bait there's little better at this stage than the previously mentioned aesthetics > drama, and currency would be a good discovery just for gold trading, the extra trade routes, and wealth building.
While Yudhishthira stood aiming at the bird, Drona asked, "What do you see?"
Yudhishthira answered, "The tree and the bird, the bow and the arrow, and my arm, and you."
Drona said, "Stand aside." He called Aswatthaman, and receieved the same answer; and Duryodhana and his brothers, who answered the samel and Bhima and the twin Pandavas, but he let none of them release their arrows.
Then he called Arjuna. "Take aim at the bird's head and shoot when I tell you." Arjuna stood with his bow drawn into a circle. "Tell me what you see."
"A bird."
"Describe him to me," said Drona.
Arjuna replied, "I cannot. I see only his neck."
"Send that arrow!" cried Drona. Arjuna's bowstring sang, and the target's head fell to Earth.
- from the Mahabharata
-----
During this turnset we gained critical information on our geographical and diplomatic situation. I have a major question about game mechanics and I would like to hear readers' opinions about strategy.
T77 - India: writing > alphabet. We shut down to 0% rate to binary tech alphabet. I doubt the AI will self-tech this before I do, somehow - I only see Mehmed and Tokugawa at this point, and the Shogun is loath to trade.
T80 - Vijayanagara: monument > axeman. Delhi: axeman > settler. The military situation is under much tighter control with even a few bronze-age defenders. Time to expand.
T85 - Bombay: library > scout. Bombay works three cottages and runs two scientists, and has most of its help from the library chop overflow. We have one forest left in Bombay's BFC I have no qualms about chopping (the riverside plains to the NW). I'm more reluctant to chop the dry plains.
T87 - Vijayanagara: axeman > barracks. I felt less confident because of a sighting of two barb archers and a spear in T86. In retrospect I think this was a mistake. The barbs eventually attacked elsewhere and even if they hadn't, my warriors have got this for the most part. I'm only planning on building major military in the medium term, not the short term, and I could have used a fast worker instead.
T88 - Delhi: settler > axeman. Still spooked by the barb sightings, I built an axeman. The small advantage of these two builds was that Delhi and Vijayanagara both grew population.
T89 - India founds Pataliputra (site Alfa), and begins a granary.
T91 - The barbs sighted in the E attacked Japan rather than India, as two wounded Japanese military units (a chariot and an archer) are seen close by the Japanese frontier. I see our cities' builds for this turn and think, "Well, that wasn't the finest play." Eventually Vijayanagara's barracks will be useful, and another axeman doesn't hurt miserably, but the builds were far from well-thought-out. Vijayanagara: barracks > settler. Delhi: axeman > fast worker.
T94 - Vijayanagara: settler > fast worker.
T96 - Delhi: fast worker > settler.
T97 - Mehmed converts to Buddhism - but hasn't founded it!
Spoiler :
Unless by some crazy circumstance the Japanese founded Buddhism while starting with fishing and the wheel, and managed to spread it while having no contact with Turkey and didn't adopt it...there's at least a fourth civ on this "continent."
Furthermore, it would appear from our easternmost scouting unit that India is in fact isolated on an island with Japan, but has a coastal inlet that connects the southern continent with a more northerly one inhabited at the least by Turkey and the founder of Buddhism.
T100 - Mehmed proposes open borders, so India and Turkey sign an open borders agreement. I agree because Turkey is across a narrow coastal strait from our continent; even if we wanted to prevent them from settling coastally we could not; and while I don't know for sure that Mehmed isn't hated by the other inhabitants of his continent, he's not without friends since he adopted another nation's religion.
India founds Varanasi, which begins a granary.
India: Alphabet > fishing. I decide this after looking at the tech trade table.
Spoiler :
Tokugawa is unsurprisingly unwilling to trade any of Japan's technology. I expect him not to be a party to trades of any kind; indeed he is unwilling to sign open borders. Furthermore we know the founder of Buddhism is a fourth civilization, as Tokugawa has not even researched Mysticism.
A bird's eye view of the known world:
Spoiler :
A bird's eye view of military units on our continent:
Spoiler :
A closer look at our continent. Use the silk tile as reference:
Spoiler :
India's cities:
Spoiler :
Other notes: Japan has Pyramids, and has not yet contacted Turkey. Japan is running Representation.
Spoiler :
-----
I have serious questions about what to do next. The first is informational.
Do continents separated only by coastal tiles count as separate continents for the purpose of the third "overseas maintenance" cost in cities held there? I'm sure I'll find out soon enough in this game, but it would be nice to know from if any gurus reading this know. A semi-serious search through the forum doesn't reveal the answer to this question. If the answer is "no," I'd probably be much more eager to settle the northern continent before I settle marginal sites on the home continent. I'd probably do the opposite if the answer is "yes."
The next few are general policy/strategy questions.
When to attack Japan? I phrase this as "if" not "when" since Tokugawa hates trading techs and is medieval/renaissance backstabber. We're far from isolated, and have at least three civs in this hemisphere even if Japan is eradicated. Therefore there are relatively few tech-trading consequences to getting rid of the Japanese.
Also on the plus side, I suspect that Tokugawa has stone, since he built the Pyramids. I wouldn't mind if India controlled the Pyramids by any means. I also think building them clearly set him back on settling, which benefits us in any war down the line but particularly wars begun sooner rather than later. A further point on the side of an earlier attack is Japan's lack of contact with Turkey; while I doubt Mehmed and Tokugawa would become fast friends, the war declaration penalty is worth avoiding.
On the other hand, Tokugawa is protective and clearly has archery. Scouting units saw Japanese chariots, so he has horses. Moreover those chariots almost certainly rule out an axe-only attack. I think even an axe attack covered by spears might take too long to build an overwhelming amount of units; Kyoto will have 60% or higher defense culturally by the time we could be most quickly at their gates, notwithstanding spies to sabotage walls - and the Pyramids in Kyoto show Japan has masonry, so Japanese cities undoubtedly have walls.
Then the ideal time might be axemen/catapults or even swordsmen/catapults, with spies in each of the three current Japanese cities tasked with sabotaging the walls.
What is the optimal short term tech to research? Mehmed would trade fishing and archery for writing, which sounds fine, but I'd much rather get sailing, which will eventually open trade routes with the northern continent. Mehmed can research compass, so he definitely has sailing. On the other hand if he techs writing in the next couple of turns I only have alphabet to give him - so it might be more advantageous to go straight to aesthetics.
Where do we block land? A very short-term attack on Tokugawa, even if successful, would leave large areas of the home island open, making galley settlement by the northern island more and more likely over time. A later attack on Tokugawa probably implies that India must split its effort between settling to take the choicest sites left in the eastern region, and settling the northerly regions to prevent Turkey - or other northerners - from gaining too large a toehold on the home island.
How do we raise happiness? Our southern island appears to have furs, silk, wine, and whale. A quick capture of the Pyramids negates the need to discover monarchy, but I doubt we can get to Kyoto quickly. This combination of resources together give +6 happiness after teching optics and currency, and taking the painful time to build markets (admittedly for a +3
boost on completion). I think that's a little too fancy for my suboptimal early game, and the quick-and-dirty option of hereditary rule is comparatively advantageous to India led by Asoka compared to civs with non-spiritual leaders.What about medium term teching? We'll probably have to do some self-teching in the mysticism branch to get monarchy going, as Mehmed doesn't know priesthood and is unwilling to trade polytheism. On the other hand, getting priesthood might make good trade bait. But if looking for trade bait there's little better at this stage than the previously mentioned aesthetics > drama, and currency would be a good discovery just for gold trading, the extra trade routes, and wealth building.
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