Observations and Questions after playing a while...

[.Shane.]

Ok, I haven't posted in a while after an opening flurry as I was playing a lot and trying to take in all the good advice I got here.

Some questions/observations that I'd appreciate feedback on:

1. Is it just me or is the AI naval power filled w/ AI cheats? I'd say I lose a battleship to a destroyer about 50% of the time, if not more.

2. As you approach the end game, all the AI opponents will turn against you, no matter how peaceful or generous you've been with them in the past.

3. Fascism is the best war-time government. So, now when I approach end-game, I switch to fascism.

4. Is there any rhyme or reason to how long you stay in anarchy when you try to switch governments? Sometimes it happens in a round, sometimes it takes several.

5. When in anarchy, since you accrue money, but not research, should you put all emphasis into tax collection?

6. A tip! I try to anticipate Wonders by building a palace then switching as I get to the Wonder. I've done this several times. Also, if the Palace comes BEFORE the Wonder, I'll slow down production by switching citizens to taxes/science/etc...

7. Another thing I learned: Take out the first near opponent, always. As the game progresses, try to not let one foe become your only rival.

FYI, I've been playing C3C on Monarch.

 

[Neomega]

Ok, I haven't posted in a while after an opening flurry as I was playing a lot and trying to take in all the good advice I got here.


2. As you approach the end game, all the AI opponents will turn against you, no matter how peaceful or generous you've been with them in the past.

3. Fascism is the best war-time government. So, now when I approach end-game, I switch to fascism.


FYI, I've been playing C3C on Monarch.

other governments do not like fascism, so if you choose it, you up your chances of getting ganged up on.

 

[TheBB]

1. Many have the same syndrome (i.e. me). In my last emperor game I swear I sunk three galleys while losing 15 myself. It's probably mostly psychologic I think. Kinda weird still.

2. Haven't experienced that myself, then again, I rarely play it out to the modern age. There tends to be a flurry of wars in the IA though.

3. Most people here swear to republic for most cases. If the WW is too much too handle, they usually advocate communism and monarchy before fascism. Communism works better for large sprawling empires, which you tend to get after having been at war for a long time.

4. If you're a religious civ you get really short anarchy periods. If you're not, then the basic rule is, the bigger you are, the longer you'll get, although there's also a random element here.

5. I usually don't bother about that in anarchy. I just make sure my cities don't riot, then just move my units around, do the diplo I need, and hope to get out quickly so I can play the game again!

6. This is known as prebuilding and is a common and very nice way of snatching wonders.

7. I usually take out at least one, too. If you have one foe you constantly fight throughout the game, you have probably done something wrong. You should win, and you should win fast.

 

[Elysium Dreams]

1. Attacking or defending? The modern warships are all attack-heavy, so destroyers can attack battleships and have a very good chance of winning.

2. I've never really noticed the AI picking on the human player in particular, but they do get much more belligerent in general, and also like to gang up quite a lot. There are a couple factors at play here; one thing I think might be a factor is that 1. AIs can be bribed into military alliances for a fairly small sum of money, and 2. Starting in the late medieval, early industrial period, the AIs tend to start accumulating large sums of money. Put those together and you have a powder keg--as soon as an AI goes to war, it will buy alliances with half the other AI civs on the first turn and buy the other half the next.

3. I think the consensus is that it's more cost-effective to stay in Republic and use the luxury slider to combat war weariness than to spend 10 turns in anarchy to go to a new government and then 10 more turns to go back. However, Fascism can get some insane results in wartime... case in point, in the game I'm finishing up now, I've sat back and let a couple big AIs get powerful so I could have a nice big modern-era war, and that dirty fascist Lincoln is just sick with his industrious workers under fascism. I can bomb a resource out and destroy all the connections in surrounding tiles, and next turn he's got almost all of them rebuilt. So you can probably have a lot of fun with fascism if you've got the game in the bag already, but the anarchy probably isn't worth it if there's any serious competition left.

6 & 7. I think these are both pretty common strategies here, but kudos if you've come up with them independently.

 

[island007]

1) One thing that helps with naval combat is to use groups. You bombard first then attack the weaken ship.
2) I'm rarley peaceful or generous and I still have some AIs polite or gracious in my endgame.
3) Republic is an excellent war government.
4) It is based on empire size + a random element +1 (I'm not sure of the exact formula) The exception of course is the Rel. trait civ.
5) You can get research in anarchy with the scientist.

 

[mtakil]

1. Carrier groups loaded with bombers and fighters will do the job. If you bomb enough you may not even use your ships to sink enemy naval unit.
2. I don't agree. I had many peaceful games(from beginning to the end). IMHO it's easy to hurt a relationship towards the end, since there is more interaction between nations.
3. That depends on the length of the war. My wars are usually short. Citizens may start revolting if war takes too long, especially after end of war happiness. War weariness is not an issue in Fascism. I usually use Fascism to faster build RRs.
4. Religious governments encounter shorter anarchy periods.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Starting in the late medieval, early industrial period, the AIs tend to start accumulating large sums of money.

sell them techs or lux to keep them poor.

 

[Breunor]

Shane,

Here is my take. Sorry if I am repeating .....

1. Its been well tested and proven that the combat results really are random. As said above, attacking is a little better than defending. If you are defending, make sure you fortify.

Pay attention to level. A veteran destroyer should beat a regular battleship pretty often. That extra hit point can be critical.

2. The AI is much more aggressive at the end of the game. Often, the AI attacks when it can't expand any more. But they will attack each other also. I'm not sure, but if you are winning, I think it is natural that you will be attacked. I suspect you are winning near the end of the game and the AI naturally attacks. I'm not sure about this though.

3. I think Fascism is a poor wartime government. You cannot build cultural buildings in conquered cities and they lose population and don't grow until the popualtion is assimilated. Of course, you can starve them out and settle, but this is a bit cumbersome and ruthless. I really prefer communism when conquering, where the newly conquered territory produces well for you. Fascism is really good for getting those railroads built, though.

4. Religious civilizations have 2 turns of anarchy in te 'current' game (C3C, v 1.22). It had been 1 before. Other civs are at least 7 turns, I think, with bigger civs being a bit longer, althoguh I think there is some randomness. Also, apparently having anarchy during your golden age (NOT recommended) may reduce the length of the perod of anarchy.

5. During anarchy, shields do you no good, nore does produced gold. So, you can use citizens only for food, or specialists. Specialist still work. So maximiing them can make a lot of sense, but you may still want to produce food. Later, the civil engineers also can be a good idea.

6. Yes. Pre-building is a key advantage the human player has. Pre-building key wonders or even other structures can be highly recommended, especially for 'must haves' like Theory of Evolution.

7. Not sure. Clearly, if the AI is hemming you in, it pays to clear them out. If you have room and can expand quickly, for instance, say you have a 4 or 5 -turn settler factory, just expanding fast can be a better option.

Breunor

 

[vmxa]

Shane

"1. Is it just me or is the AI naval power filled w/ AI cheats? I'd say I lose a battleship to a destroyer about 50% of the time, if not more."

Just back luck, no cheats.

"2. As you approach the end game, all the AI opponents will turn against you, no matter how peaceful or generous you've been with them in the past."

That is about the size of it. Top dog has to become the bad or they win.

"3. Fascism is the best war-time government. So, now when I approach end-game, I switch to fascism."

Fascism is a pathetic gov for any reason and I like to force the AI to switch to it and it will hurt them. Anyway switching at that is not a good thing, unless you are a religious civ.

"4. Is there any rhyme or reason to how long you stay in anarchy when you try to switch governments? Sometimes it happens in a round, sometimes it takes several."

It is a fucntion of rng and number of cities, for non relious players. For the Ai it is more a function of the level. At Sid they all get 1 turn.

"5. When in anarchy, since you accrue money, but not research, should you put all emphasis into tax collection?"

Well after you ensure no disorder.

 

[brennan]

1) I've noticed this too. Its worse than RNG with land units, I am actually suspicious of this...

2) As the end of the game approaches any rep/attitude hits you have taken will be accumulating, plus it takes more and more in the way of 'gifts' to keep them happy. It is possible to achieve Diplo victory on Deity+ levels so persevere.

5) You don't collect tax in anarchy (I think specialists still accrue money/beakers)

6) The AI will switch from a Wonder that gets built, to the next one on their priority list. Hence wonder cascades.

7) Weaken each neighbour in turn, cripple them all and gain a little power from each...

 

[SuperBeaverInc.]

1) I've noticed this too. Its worse than RNG with land units, I am actually suspicious of this...

Destroyer attack strength: 12
Battleship defense strength: 12

50% odds of winning when a Destroyer attacks a Battleship. No need for suspicion.

 

[brennan]

no, I am talking about every game I play, my ships seem to lose at 2/1 3/1 ratio when attacking!

I nearly fell off my chair a couple days ago when my brave Elite Destroyer sank an attacking American Battleship... I actually expect to lose sea battles.

 

[gmaharriet]

2) As the end of the game approaches any rep/attitude hits you have taken will be accumulating, plus it takes more and more in the way of 'gifts' to keep them happy.

I used to constantly gift the AIs in an attempt to keep them peaceful toward me. Near the end of a game I gifted Lincoln with 10 gold, and he replied something like, "Don't waste my time."

 

[HellboundHeathcliff]

A few things to point out from this discussion so far:

Naval units do not 'fortify', thus you get no extra defensive benefit. Note the lack of the white border around the health bar on fortified naval units.

Water tiles provide a 10% defensive bonus.

A late flurry of AI wars can be attributed to the 'sub bug' which is back in C3C. The AI will always declare war when it accidently runs in to another civs invisible unit.

 

[Tomoyo]

For naval battles, you should use the BOSOF tactic - Bombard the enemy to one before attacking - with ships if need be.

 

[Breunor]

A few things to point out from this discussion so far:

Naval units do not 'fortify', thus you get no extra defensive benefit. Note the lack of the white border around the health bar on fortified naval units.

Water tiles provide a 10% defensive bonus.

Watorrey,

Thanks for telling me this -- I didn't know this! Sorry to anyone else for any bad advice.

Breunor

 

[vmxa]

Ships do have the fortify function, I never checked to see if they get any bonus, but I do note that it is common for a forted curragh to be left alone by a lone galley and an unforted one is always attacked (barbs).

I also recall some testing way back in Vanilla where an attack wins when the galley attacks the unforted galley, but loses if it is forted.

 

[HellboundHeathcliff]

As i mentioned, fortified units with the bonus always get a white border around the health bar. Fortified navel units do not get the white border and therefore recieve no fortification bonus. This has been known since early in the days of vanilla civ3.

 

[.Shane.]

Thanks all for the comments.

From now on, unless I'm in an "untouchable" lead, I'll eschew the democracy/fascism toggle and stick w/ Republic in all situations.

Also, I'm realizing I hate how the naval units are setup. I've just finished heavily tweaking them in terms of doubling movement and increasing attack/defense ratios so that battleships/cruisers/destroyers actually have (IMVHO) a more sane relationship to each other.

A couple other observations:

8. Whenever I take out enemy cities, I NEVER get any tech improvements (yes, I'm attacking civs w/ tech I don't have). Is this relative to the "value" (size, improvements, etc...) of the city I took over?

9. Also, when taking enemy cities w/ Wonders, they very often are destroyed (most of the time it seems). Is this another probability based event?

 

[HellboundHeathcliff]

8. Cultural improvements are always destroyed when taking a city. The rest have a 50% chance of being destroyed. AFAIK, tech level doesn't matter. If you're talking about getting techs from conquering cities, that doesn't happen in civ3.

9. AFAIK, wonders can only be destroyed in C3C via bombardment or razing. Vanilla and PTW they can only be destroyed by razing the city they are in.