Obsessive improvement builder

[Kudos]

I have this problem (or maybe it isnt I dont know), where I am obsessed with building every city improvement in every city, and untill there is nothing left to build at that time I have a very hard time switching myself to building military.

I think I do it more out of fear that if I dont build improvment X then its going to eventually lead to my downfall.

So what do the pros do? What improvements are the essentials and what ones are trivial? And what about corelation with position on the tech tree?

I have read a whole bunch of faqs and such but I never get a comfortable answer.

So?

 

[The Economist]

I suffered from this same problem, so I know what you're going through. :::stands up::: I'm The Economist, and I am a city improvement-aholic. :::sits down:::

Generally, the "coastal fortress" is a complete waste, you should probably never build them except in rare circumstances that only a pro would know.

Barracks should only be built when you're either planning on making military units in that city within the next 20 turns, if you're just going to build more non-unit things, you don't need the barracks unless the city is coming under attack.

Walls are a waste in interior cities, most of the time, especially since they're the first to grow past 6.

Marketplaces shouldn't be built unless the city is producing at least 4 gold pieces into gold, as opposed to science. Its a waste to build one if your science rate is up really high and you're only making one gold per turn from that city.

I'm sure others will have more/better tips. In my experience, its always good to have at least a few cities making military units, and then when the others are finished with their city improvment, have the other cities start building city improvments, and switch the others onto unit-training.

On higher difficulty levels sometimes its actually easier to focus on military, since you have less new improvements because science is so slow..

 

[eric2075]

I have the same problem, at least I used to. I would build everything except coastal fortresses and airports. In every city.

Try putting off happiness builds until the city really needs it, or is about to.

Marketplaces are one of the most essential improvements though. They multiply the happiness you get from luxuries, and they increase the gold you have for science.

 

[The Economist]

marketplaces don't increase your science, though. libraries increase science by 50%, and marketplaces increase tax income and luxuries (from the slider, not from luxury resources or from entertainers) by 50%.

 

[dozenlong]

I disagree about marketplaces -- every city should have one for the happiness multiplier from extra bonuses. It can mean the difference between a bunch of corrupt cities or a ton of WLTKDs

 

[Jormurgandr]

I used to have this problem when I first started playing. I'm not a pro, but I've been a pretty successful warmonger up to emperor (haven't tried anything beyond that yet).

Just ask yourself if you really need it. Culture flips are rare; unless your productive cities are in danger of flipping, building cultural buildings beyond the first (for border expansion) is not necessary. At least for a while; it all depends on how fast you eliminate them.

You can eliminate the need for scientific buildings by acquiring the Great Library (at least temporarily in this case) or by beating up your rivals and demanding science in exchange for their survival.

Only build wonders when they can help you achieve your military goals (or avert a diplomatic loss in the case of the UN). Most of the benefits of wonders are far less useful than the stack of military units you can produce for the same cost.

Marketplaces and banks are still good to have, as they allow you to sustain and upgrade a much larger military.

 

[Kudos]

Ok I have a bit to add, but thanks for the tips so far.

First these are the improvments I never build (or very rarely):
-Walls
-Coastal Fortress
-Civil Defense
-Commercial dock

There might be a few more but I cant think of them ATM, but they're all along that city-defense/coastal city line.

A little off topic but it came to mind with the marketplace thing. Should I be turning off my governor, or atleast as far as mood managment goes? I'm thinking maybe sacrificing a library for say a scientist could be a good idea?

All of my games I've just turned the governors mood managment on to avoid Civil disorders and....well just to suit some of my lazyiness .

 

[Grey Fox]

Originally posted by Kudos
First these are the improvments I never build (or very rarely):
-Walls
-Commercial dock

Walls can be good, especially if you are under attack by a superior force (which can happen alot on the higher diffs), and especially if you are not as advanced as your opponent. A wall in the border towns can save you time/cities, wars.

Commercial Dock is just stupid not to build in coastal cities that are relative uncorrupt. Those Sea and coastal tiles are commercial paradises, with the commercial dock it's even better.

 

[Jormurgandr]

I don't think you should create any scientists in your productive cities unless you've run out of tiles to work on. Scientists don't make much of a difference in your science rate and it would hurt your growth, production, and commerce.

Governors make a good safety net in case you overlook a city that will go into civil disorder. However, entertainers would best be put to work on tiles, so you shouldn't rely on governors to keep your people happy. You should use your luxury slider and acquire more luxuries.

 

[Grey Fox]

Originally posted by Jormurgandr
I don't think you should create any scientists in your productive cities unless you've run out of tiles to work on. Scientists don't make much of a difference in your science rate and it would hurt your growth, production, and commerce.

They do a LOT in Civ3 Conquests.

3 Gold into science is a lot. I've researched Steam Power in anarchy with just scientists.

 

[Masquerouge]

Myself I build almost everything. Actually I plan my tech discoveries so that I have some "streaks" of 2-3 techs without any city improvement coming with them, that allows me to build a decent military.
The only exceptions to my building-dependency are recycling centers and Mass transportation, only in cities grossly polluted, nuclear plant (only in my most productive cities) and airports and seaports, only in the most productive cities/coastal cities so they can produce vets units.
Of course I love wonders such as Sun-Tzu, the Internet or Hoover's dam... they save you soooo much time
Personnaly I don't think there's anything wrong with building everything, as long as you can maintain a decent army, and that requires nothing but planning.

 

[JustBen]

Granaries are always good. They become less useful after you start railroading and can create astronomical growth rates with irrigation, but until then they're huge. Easily the first and most important bulding.

I think the first thing to realize is that if you're building less infrastructure and more military, you're going to want more Barracks. Don't be afraid to start a city's build queue with, especially if an Aqueduct is in its very distant future. If you're going to war early, these 2 buildings are frequently all you need.

Don't build a cultural building without a very specific reason. Don't build a Temple unless you need a cultural building. If you're Scientific, it's perfectly reasonable to build a Library somewhere and not bulid a Temple for centuries. One content face is not as much as it sounds -- the entertainment slider will already be up to support your big cities, so don't waste production in the little ones. 60 shields is a lot: 6 Warriors, 3 Archers, a Barracks & 3 Warriors, 2 Swordsmen, etc.

Marketplaces are an essential improvement, but not until you need them -- either a big city or 3 luxuries. If you're good enough to realize that you needed to ask this question, you're probably already playing with your Science set 0%.

A single Harbor opens up trade routes quickly (if you're on a high difficulty level, at least). Make sure you have a good reason in mind before buliding more.

Past that, just decide what you need. There's no hurry. After you have 1 cultural building, you'll get the full city radius so there won't be a need for more. A Cathedral doesn't lower your luxury rate unless you build one in every city. Banks get you more money for every individual one you build. Universities only help if you're doing your own research -- and usually make Banks frivolous. Factories are crucial -- you may want to "prebuild" them with whichever of Bank/University you didn't build. And so on.

 

[Capt Buttkick]

Imhso it depends on what you're trying to achieve with your game. My current game is my first going for a 20K culture victory. I built a few temples and cathedrals to contain the masses in my biggest and most productive cities. My second city with 3 (!) cows just kept churning out settlers (6 turns per settler without a granary) for a looong time. The less productive cities and the smaller ones all get a temple for expansion and after that it's all military and navy. It's an archipelago map so those curraghs came in VERY handy

 

[JustBen]

Well, playing for culture is always going to produce eccentric strategies. A player aspiring to a UN victory will need to be a little extra pacifistic, but aside from that the 4 non-cultural victory conditions lend themselves to a consistent class of strategies, which is usually what is intended by a particular question.

 

[Grey Fox]

Originally posted by JustBen
If you're good enough to realize that you needed to ask this question, you're probably already playing with your Science set 0%.

Actually, I play at the higher difficulties (demi-god now), and I've started to do my own research in the early game, atleast in the ancient age, and for as long as it's worth it.
This mainly thanks to the new Scientists (which are awesome), the fact that it takes 50 turns per tech now, without own research, no Sci-Leaders. And, the first one to come to Philosophy gets a free tech.

 

[Capt Buttkick]

Originally posted by JustBen
Well, playing for culture is always going to produce eccentric strategies. A player aspiring to a UN victory will need to be a little extra pacifistic, but aside from that, the 4 non-cultural victory conditions lend themselves to a consistent class of strategies, which is usually what is intended by a particular question.

I answer according to the parameters specified. If none are given, I don't go around assuming what people wanted to get an answer to before I post. My reply illuminated a side of this issue that no other poster had attended. You really don't go around posting stuff like that every time you aren't enlightened by someone's postings, do you?
To the issue: a 20K victory is quite different in C3C than it was in vanilla Civ and I'm just starting to explore it. That said: I think my response, at least to some degree is usable if going for a moderate expansionist (IE, not conquest or domination) victory. Get some culture to secure no flips and train military for all it's worth.

Kudos: I've done this often myself. In fact, I'm just starting to kick the habit

 

[JustBen]

Well, Cap'n, you're certainly right about the strategies for the culture war being altered now. But for someone trying to phase out the construction of every improvement they get their hands on, I'd still recommend axing the cultural buildings first. Cathedrals only feel worthwhile (to me) if you're Religious, and if you want to take a city it's easier to do so by force than by culture. Unless you're a die-hard builder. Which is the habit we're trying to kick.

I shouldn't have lashed out like that, though; that's worth an apology. I've just been wallowing in so much math that I'm getting weary of "the degenerate case", so I took it out on you. Sorry.

 

[Capt Buttkick]

Apology accepted, I can relate to your maths issue so we're
Usually I agree wholeheartedly with the idea that you can do without cathedrals in your cities. In my current game, which is an archipelago map), there were no lux's on my starting island and no coast connection to other islands either. By the time I could get to other islands apart from the (in these cases) obligatory suicide missions, France and Spain had settled on top of the lux on the island I could reach by sea and I was at war with the Aztecs over ocean.
So no lux, but apart from that a good starting position (horses and iron and loads of bonus food and rivers) means I had to build cathedrals in my biggest cities (I'm not touching the lux slider, research is way too slow as it is ).

 

[Fanny Brice]

In general, not necessary in every city:

* Courthouse
* Police Stations
* Colusiums (I build Cathedrals usually)
* Coastal Fortress (no value what-so-ever)
* Civil Defense
* Research Center
* Commercial Docks (unless you have more than 3 ocean tiles... then a very good idea)
* Air Defense
* Barracks (later will build in most cities)
* Harbors (not every city needs it... will build eventually to keep growth going)


Essential:
* Temple ASAP to expand borders
* Marketplace

I will build culture producing improvements when not necessary for functioning of city if I am on a border. This would be to ward off possible culture flip or to engineer my own.

 

[NiteCreature]

I just found out in my game that i will never build coastal fortresses again. In this game i had build them in every coastal city... then the Americans declared war and came to my cities in ironclads. They started to bombard them every turn and guess what they destroyed first? U guessed it..my fortresses. So besides from being a nice decoy for my stationed troops, i think i will never again consider them