fe3333au
Deity
have sent ... see new thread
OFFICIAL KISS Embassy
- Thread starter fe3333au
- Start date
Kentharu
Zebra Commander
we need to remedy this, fast, whish Whomp was on-line right now so i could talk
diplomats should be able to talk on any subject and well informed on all things (though i never really am) i do check threads other than diplomatic, i would also like Mr. President to put what techs we have and what we are researching on the first post of the state of the empire thread, easy to find
diplomats should be able to talk on any subject and well informed on all things (though i never really am) i do check threads other than diplomatic, i would also like Mr. President to put what techs we have and what we are researching on the first post of the state of the empire thread, easy to find
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
I will be happy to accomodate this -
EDIT: You got it!
Kentharu
Zebra Commander
no the first post in the entire thread please #1 thanks 
Kentharu
Zebra Commander
this is the full log, read it over and chew chew chew, will post thoughts soon maybe
Meleager
Stoned as a Statue
"You have been forthright with us. That was big for us."
Looks like it was worth telling them about D-Nuts
(BTW, this makes so much more sence then the private room we were in)
Looks like it was worth telling them about D-Nuts
(BTW, this makes so much more sence then the private room we were in)
fe3333au
Deity
Only with 24 Hours NoticeKentharu said:
...Reason our edge is AIM Whispers ... we should utilize it properly with everyone well briefed and on the ball
>>>>>>>>
We have agreement on the Proposal
I have informed (I hope) concerns about spirit of the game and the actual rules ... regarding discussing 3 onto 1 alliance with a rival we have not even met or in fact been told of their existence ...
Kentharu
Zebra Commander
You can skip all of this since its just small talk, but look over it if you want your choice, ill put it ina spoiler
Now this is when the discussion starts, first off with the 3 way deal, good idea to
This is important, notice the agreesion towards TNT, and it is a bit justified since Provolution was a jerk for the most part. We can use these definitely and TNT will probably be the first to be eliminated. Another concern is that this 3 on 1 may be against, I really dont like it (it is very unfair after all and im a fair guy  )
notice what he says, they arent angry, just a bit let down I feel so it isnt to bad
also shows the trust that is being built up between our two teams
a bit of deal making info just look over it, I think this 3 way thing is a good idea but im concerned about spirit of the game issues, that will be brought up later
Deal sealed my friends so thats one thing out of the way
here is the Emperor discount thingy, probably he will put some changes nothing to big I guess
Emp. I think you should add this to the list of things you need to talk to D-nut about in the next meeting
Ok this is the spirit of the game issue, ill probably start a thread or ask the mods
Another note, both our teams dislike Provo who is on TNT, this can be used to our advantage of course
Spoiler :
Now this is when the discussion starts, first off with the 3 way deal, good idea to
This is important, notice the agreesion towards TNT, and it is a bit justified since Provolution was a jerk for the most part. We can use these definitely and TNT will probably be the first to be eliminated. Another concern is that this 3 on 1 may be against, I really dont like it (it is very unfair after all and im a fair guy  )
notice what he says, they arent angry, just a bit let down I feel so it isnt to bad
also shows the trust that is being built up between our two teams
a bit of deal making info just look over it, I think this 3 way thing is a good idea but im concerned about spirit of the game issues, that will be brought up later
Deal sealed my friends so thats one thing out of the way
here is the Emperor discount thingy, probably he will put some changes nothing to big I guess
Emp. I think you should add this to the list of things you need to talk to D-nut about in the next meeting
Ok this is the spirit of the game issue, ill probably start a thread or ask the mods
Another note, both our teams dislike Provo who is on TNT, this can be used to our advantage of course
fe3333au
Deity
PM from Whomp and my reply
fe3333au said:Whomp said:
Regarding agreement ... 3 options -
1. We redo the agreement graphic and send to you
2. You cover the section 5 wording with a black box or cross out and still sign and send
3. You sign and send as is ... and I delete the section then send you the completed document
Regarding TNT ... I am uneasy about discussing a team none of us have yet to meet in-game ... I wonder if it goes against the spirit of the game rules ... therefore I have forwarded this to the admins so they can clarify ... they must be sick of me by now... it seems a pity that any relationship with them is already tainted
I have instructed our diplomat to mention that we know KISS, but not go into details regarding our relationship ...
fe3333au
Deity
OK AIM Chat with AK and Tubby Rower from KISS and myself and Kentharu
Action ... D-Nut meeting urgent and then deal the F#$@% out of the arogant ones ... hopefully they will trade well for military technology ...
Action ... D-Nut meeting urgent and then deal the F#$@% out of the arogant ones ... hopefully they will trade well for military technology ...
Is there any reason to believe that a Donut city was lost instead of a TNT one (other than the fact that Donuts have requested extra time)?
The good news is that our continent should pull comfortably ahead of the other continent regardless of who the aggressor is.
The good news is that our continent should pull comfortably ahead of the other continent regardless of who the aggressor is.
fe3333au
Deity
During the meeting I was thinking that the capital was lost and renamed ... unlikely ... however the population rise indicates a fear of losing workers, settlers ... and this would primarily happen if another team is attacking ...
fe3333au
Deity
This started as an AIM chat with Grimsey and later Gen_W ... topic the analysis about the TNT/Nut War
Later we brought in KISS and were joined by Whomp and Tubby Rower
Cleaned Up AIM Log
>Tubby Rower is KC Venters
>Whomp is bawhomp
Anyway I left the thought with them and for them to PM us a proposal of how our virtually giving away our science advantage to them is not resiprocated by their Agricultural growth trait ...
What this has achieved
1. Stronger Bonds
2. Sharing of Info
3. They have a very good analyst in Tubby Rower
4. May be interested in exploring a non-military victory ... sorry that may be distressing to Sherman and Ruj
5. They have cleared some Barbs and are not near the coast ... so we must pop all northern goody huts
6. We will engage D-Nuts in diplomacy and ask in a by the way manner why the extension and then whats up ... leading to a tough deal for Writing ... and get other intel, Luxes for Ivory (which they already know) ... etc ... Go Emp !!!
7. They are heading west with a boat 9est 8 or 9 turns to meet TNT) ... we should go east and depending on what intel we get ... go directly to D-Nuts cos we may see the war ...
8. They have to think about compensation for us due to the uneven nature of benefiting from our respective traits ...
Later we brought in KISS and were joined by Whomp and Tubby Rower
Cleaned Up AIM Log
>Tubby Rower is KC Venters
>Whomp is bawhomp
You have just entered room "chat18260272262209819567."
KC Venters has entered the room.
GeneralW77 has entered the room.
xxpgrimesxx has entered the room.
fe3333au: We want to discuss the war
KC Venters: Ok
KC Venters: What about it?
fe3333au: i sec
fe3333au: We are cutting and pasting our info
fe3333au: we are unsure or analysis
KC Venters: can I invite Whomp?
fe3333au: yes whomp welcom
fe3333au: We are all agreeing that there is a war on the other continent
xxpgrimesxx: Hey Tubby... no offense. I will be pasting in the relevent sections of the Chat Fe and I have been doing.
xxpgrimesxx: This is going to be a little disjointed, but bear with....
bawhomp has entered the room.
bawhomp: Esteemed gentlemen of MIA and tubs
fe3333au: Hi Whomp ... we are just starting ... peter Grimes is ctiing and pasting our F-11 info
xxpgrimesxx: as I was saying...KISS and we must check our F11 stats for 33, 34, 35 turns. Specifically land area and pop
xxpgrimesxx:
Turn 33 ...
land area is 3800 and 3rd
population is 125000 and 4th
Dancing Banana is population 1 (growth) and Carpetbomb is shown pop 3 growth
STRONG Military
Victory screen
% area of world 66 to win ... we have 2 ... Top (known rival) is KISS on 2
% of world pop 66 to win ... we have 18 ... TKR is D-Nut with 25
Cultural one city 20000 to win ... Athens 45 ... TKR Springfield (D-Nut) 45
Entire Civ 80K to win ... Entire MIA Civ 45 ... TKR 45 D-Nuts
POWER - amalgam of cities, gold, culture, advances, resources, military strength
D-Nut 132, KISS 126, MIA 129
Turn 34
land area is 3800 and 3rd
pop is 152000 and 3rd
Dancing Banana is population 1 (static) and Carpetbomb is NOT shown ... Shelbyville instead
Shelby is 4 and Springfield is 4
AVERAGE Military c/- D-Nut
% area of world 66 to win ... we have 2 ... Top (known rival) is KISS on 2
% of world pop 66 to win ... we have 20 ... TKR is D-Nut with 30
Cultural one city 20000 to win ... Athens 47 ... TKR Springfield (D-Nut) 47
Entire Civ 80K to win ... Entire MIA Civ 47 ... TKR 47 D-Nuts
POWER - D-Nut 135, KISS 130, MIA 132
Turn 35
land area is 3800 and 2nd
pop is 165000 and 4th
Dancing Banana is population 4 ... Springfield 4 ... Shelbyville 4 ... and dancing banana is 4th
AVERAGE Military c/- D-Nut
% area of world 66 to win ... we have 2 ... Top (known rival) is KISS on 2
% of world pop 66 to win ... we have 21 ... TKR is D-Nut with 27
Cultural one city 20000 to win ... Athens 49 ... TKR Springfield (D-Nut) 49
Entire Civ 80K to win ... Entire MIA Civ 49 ... TKR 49 D-Nuts
KC Venters: you know that a 4 pop city has more population than 2 3pops?
xxpgrimesxx: Okay... That's it.
fe3333au: We would appreciate your data as well to colaborate a bigger picture
KC Venters: right now no culture buildings are available except temples and obviously the palace ... all culture is from the palace so far I would think
KC Venters: let me go through ours. hang on a minute while I call it up
fe3333au: so a civ can be equal first
KC Venters: correct
fe3333au: so 3rd could be last ... or even 2nd
KC Venters: correct
xxpgrimesxx: Does KISS want our 33 34 35 Top5Cities records (in exchange for same, of course)
KC Venters: hang on a minute....I'm getting ours
KC Venters: top 5 cities were the same as yours
fe3333au: no ... what if you did something that changed the order
KC Venters: we didn't
fe3333au: I am talking about the order of the cities
KC Venters: I have the entire F11 screen in a spreadsheet that I keep
KC Venters: land area was 44 for all 3 turns 2nd-33, 2nd-34, 1st -35
xxpgrimesxx: Land Area: Occupied, or simply explored?
KC Venters: land area = # of tiles in your boundries x 1000
KC Venters: population was 146-3rd ,189-2nd ,202-2nd
KC Venters: Since we don't know anyone but MIA our F3 screen shows us nothing but you ... so no comparison available there
fe3333au: But my question is the TNT city raised pop suddenly imply that enemy forces are near ... yes? ... so is D-Nuts attacking TNT?
KC Venters: joined the settler that they built on turn 33 I suspect or they are ramping up for battle
fe3333au: why would they do that if not to save
xxpgrimesxx: Why build a worker in? No benefit, except to pop rush
fe3333au: to increase prod
KC Venters: You guys might be right about the attacking nutters
KC Venters: nutters = Doughnut
fe3333au: So one way to look at it is ... TNT is war footing ... I ask this becasue i would prefer not to assume things when talking to D-Nuts ... because that way they may get suss
KC Venters: I understand
fe3333au: Is there any interpretation of these number that can suggest one way or another ... or do both scenarios fit the stats
KC Venters: What I'm curious about is that d'nut has asked for an extension (caught by surprise?) while the data looks as though they are attacking
bawhomp: tnt may have raised pop to get their production up ... they are industrious ... they may not need the worker immediately
KC Venters: but if they were raising production then they would have done it a while ago in order to start the attack
fe3333au: good point
bawhomp: they may not have finished all tiles
KC Venters: The data points to D'nut attacking TNT.
KC Venters: The delay in D'nut's turn suggests the opposite
fe3333au: Are we agreed that someone has lost a city?
KC Venters: yes absolutely ... our data PROVES it ... KC Venters: what we can't prove until next turn is who
fe3333au: therefore I have a scenario ... wandering warrior find undefended city and takes it
bawhomp: i'm curious how dnuts could do it without a military....warriors?
fe3333au: My sceanario is that TNT warrior is the city taker
KC Venters: to MIA:::::, just so you know we took out your barb problem in the north and will be continuing east this turn ... we will not venture into MIA territory
fe3333au: Hate them barbs ... thanks ... you can keep the scalps
fe3333au: As per our soon to be offical agreement
bawhomp: tubs did you it?
KC Venters: not yet. I didn't get your message at work
KC Venters: It will be on the way this evening
fe3333au: just red tape catching up ... as far as I am concerned we have shaken hands
Peter Goes to make dinner... while I have another breakfast tea
fe3333au: enjoy meal ;-)
fe3333au: So TNT exploring and takes an undefended city ... then they go for production increase to go into total war footing ?
KC Venters: very sound reasoning
bawhomp: they have been very stealth in this game.
KC Venters: true true
fe3333au: I wonder if this is Nutters first meeting with them?
fe3333au: So in regards to MIA's diplomat ... I will ask him to ask about another matter and then do a general so what's up guys ... he will say that we have met ... but no more info
KC Venters: very good
fe3333au: And then request a trade for Writing
KC Venters: for military techs
fe3333au: So we give him something for Writing
RECAP cos I confused things by saying we gave them wheel
We have traded Pots for BW
so to get writing I think we offer WC or IW ... we can also offer wheel ... but I am loath to offer 2 techs that give resources
fe3333au: cos they were very condescending and arrogant
fe3333au: finished recap
bawhomp: you can request what TNT's strength is relative to donut
KC Venters: It might be nice to give them those 2 techs for Writing. ... then they will focus on kicking TNT's butt and we can get the sling and leave them behind ... just a thought
fe3333au: I agree but not IW and Wheel ...
Then I throw a spanner
fe3333au: But I know that I will be asked questions from my team ... There are sme who will say OK we are giving away tech for writing ... what will KISS give us in return ... I am all for sharing ... I just know that our teams are made up of all sorts of people ... some are young ... need I say more ;-)
KC Venters: We promise to share whatever we get from TNT. ... We know that they aren't trading with D'nuts
fe3333au: So regarding TNT ... we all know through the spirit world (UN) that provo has said to me particularly that e is against sharing ...
KC Venters: he will trade though correct?
fe3333au: I have never met him before ... can only judge by reading the tone of his messages
fe3333au: Yoy know him?
KC Venters: no way thank goodness
GeneralW77: Greetings great foreign leaders! I know I haven't said much - I just wanted to say hi... so that I can tell you I have to leave. Thanks for letting me lurk. Looks like this is all very much undercontrol. Have a great evening/morning
fe3333au: cya chief
KC Venters: c ya gen. W\
bawhomp: bye general
fe3333au: I am rude ... Gen_W is our president
bawhomp: because of his comments I have read much about Provo.
GeneralW77 has left the room.
Back to the Spanner
fe3333au: So I see our continental allianec to be a good thing ... and both of us at peace is best for both cultures
bawhomp: agreed.
KC Venters: very correct
fe3333au: our only concern and it would be yours if reversed situation is that you can out grow us ... is there some sort of way to eliviate this concern?
KC Venters: our concern currently is that we have no other contact
fe3333au: We can't give that until ... some tech ... map?
KC Venters: The out-growing issue is one that we tried to resolve earlier but regretably tempers were raised and no deal was made ... As I was talking to you earlier fe, we can out-play the other two opponents and maybe find another race to run.
fe3333au: But we are here ... you in evening me in morning sun ... but same sun ... and chatting and sharing in a most polite manner
KC Venters: yes and it is much more pleasant this way
fe3333au: I agree and have actually restated this tio our team
KC Venters: This PBEM experience is the first for almost our entire team ... so we are learning as we go
bawhomp: fe you can build cheap science buildings we can not so each have their advantages.
fe3333au: Our team does change the role of people ... so that all can share in all elements of the game
KC Venters: symbiotic civs ... we have ... yoda ... i am
fe3333au: re - science ... that is the point ... we have an agreement about science trade b/w us both
bawhomp: it's why we originally recommened a mutual exclusive deal
fe3333au: Which means only trade b/w us ?
bawhomp: no it's more
fe3333au: what is the advantage to us particularly?
bawhomp: shared excess resources, help in any war, information, everything
fe3333au: can I add Emp?
bawhomp: absolutely
EmperorNapoloen has entered the room.
bawhomp: Hi Emp.
fe3333au: Emp is the diplomat for D-Nuts
bawhomp: Hey emp can i ask a question?
EmperorNapoloen: yes you may
fe3333au: Can we first discuss the meeting with D-Nuts
bawhomp: Sure
bawhomp: I was going to add something to maybe add
fe3333au: ask you question while I cut /paste
bawhomp: In the process of asking about the situation over there ... could you ask about what TNT's strength is on f3? ... it may reveal an immortal and a GA
EmperorNapoloen: what does F3 do again?
bawhomp: military strength
EmperorNapoloen: I can ask, no garenties though
fe3333au: Military Pop Head gives the relative strength of the other teams
fe3333au: We feel strongly that Nuts vx TNT
fe3333au: FACT
fe3333au: A city has been captured
bawhomp: The question is who did what to who.
fe3333au: TNT or Nuts?? ... strongly suggest that Nuts have lost one
fe3333au: So when you chat with Nuts
EmperorNapoloen: hmm ... we could get TNT
bawhomp: especially with their more than the normal request for delay
EmperorNapoloen: Dnuts will be looking for an ally and would be willing to ally
fe3333au: ask about the signing of the jpeg ... they will say they have sent it ... you will say Ooops
bawhomp: seems odd they would request a delay 2 hours after receiving the save.
fe3333au: then you will say ... So whats up with you guys ... asking for an extension ... They will hopefully open up about war
EmperorNapoloen: they will open upo about the war when they think they need help, which would be now ... diplomaticly, I can't tell there is a war, but I will work on it
fe3333au: if not ... you will ask if they have had time to rethink about not trading anything for Writing
bawhomp: nice takeaway fe.
fe3333au: Then we can trade them and send it with an accept so they get use of it in the next turn ... military technology ... Warrior Code ... Iron Works ... Wheel
fe3333au: I have a pproblem about trading both IW and Wheel
bawhomp: wheel is very important to them.
EmperorNapoloen: and admit we know kiss?
fe3333au: kiss we have met ... but no more ... (I am open to ideas on this) ... but they suspect that we are not very good friend with kiss becasue we got pots from them ... so no need to tell them we sometimes share toothbrushes;-)
bawhomp: they also don't know who we know ... which is only you but they don't know that so I would use that somehow.
bawhomp: maybe to pull info on who had a city razed.
fe3333au: so a good trade could be Wheel + WC
EmperorNapoloen: if they are at war, the will want IW and wheel
fe3333au: If they got IW ... they would have to give us more than just Writing
fe3333au: They were arrogant #%%$% remember
bawhomp: they will need wheel bad to see horses
EmperorNapoloen: they will take it
fe3333au: Yeah ... but be a really hard ... and aloof haggler ... I know that you have this in you ;-)
EmperorNapoloen: thanks
fe3333au: so is there a way to see who is the richest economy?
bawhomp: yes
HOW ???
bawhomp: they will be desperate for locating horses if they've been attacked.
fe3333au: Yeah ... so 'm thinking lets not even have IW on the table unless get a very good deal ... maybe they are close to finishing another tech ... but I'd lke to see some d-Nut gold
bawhomp: I would think they continued to philo...no?
fe3333au: not sure ... I wonder why they havn't attempted to contact us thugh?
bawhomp: strange
EmperorNapoloen: they don't talk to me ... unless I bother them
fe3333au: That is the only thing that makes me uneasy about our prediction ... If they are agressors then why ask for our help
bawhomp: they are trying to develop their aloofness on why they are willing NOW to trade writing.
fe3333au: so you contacting them as we suggest will probably be the best way ... are any on-line atm?
EmperorNapoloen: I just wanna get rid of TNT, they got Provolution and Rscoutme, they are good generals
bawhomp: Donut is stronger
fe3333au: I just wnat to slap some maners into Provo
bawhomp: here here
fe3333au: but better that I am just watching the agro from the safe distance of a passing ship
bawhomp: He forced me to study the ISDG threads
EmperorNapoloen: how do you know him?
fe3333au: ISDG Threads?
BLAH BLAH About Provo
fe3333au: So Emp are they on-line atm?
EmperorNapoloen: no
Spanner Again
fe3333au: So now to the other business ... as mentioned there are some in our team who feel that our science advantage is being given away to you ... and we get no advantage to your ag trait
bawhomp: tubs why do you think donut has not contacted MIA?
fe3333au: Yes
fe3333au: I am uneasy that we were not asked to trade wheel or other military tech from D-Nuts
bawhomp: kind of strange but that's why it may be good to offer f3 info on us and you so they would give the same on TNT ... it would at least start the conversation
KC Venters: I dunno. over-developed sense of sefl-help?
fe3333au: after the initial intro ... we don't want to look suspicious ;-)
fe3333au: or are they agressors
KC Venters: with warriors? it would be risky but doabel
bawhomp: ick
bawhomp: but all the more reason to get horses up and running.
fe3333au: Actually I am being over anylitical ... you are correct .. they have NO military teach only BW
KC Venters: spears are horrible attackers ;-)
bawhomp: MWs are faster than immortals too
fe3333au: so the sceanrio is that a TNT warrior found an undefended city and tok it
bawhomp: now is a pillaging machine.
fe3333au: Glad i don't lve across the pond ... bit noisy me thinks
SPANNER ... Come on Guys answer the question
fe3333au: Ok back to the hard one ... and again it is just that I know my people ... what can we do about this?
KC Venters: about what?
bawhomp: our growth
fe3333au: Our big trait is science ... yours is Ag
THEN I WAS DISCONNECTED
Anyway I left the thought with them and for them to PM us a proposal of how our virtually giving away our science advantage to them is not resiprocated by their Agricultural growth trait ...
What this has achieved
1. Stronger Bonds
2. Sharing of Info
3. They have a very good analyst in Tubby Rower
4. May be interested in exploring a non-military victory ... sorry that may be distressing to Sherman and Ruj
5. They have cleared some Barbs and are not near the coast ... so we must pop all northern goody huts
6. We will engage D-Nuts in diplomacy and ask in a by the way manner why the extension and then whats up ... leading to a tough deal for Writing ... and get other intel, Luxes for Ivory (which they already know) ... etc ... Go Emp !!!
7. They are heading west with a boat 9est 8 or 9 turns to meet TNT) ... we should go east and depending on what intel we get ... go directly to D-Nuts cos we may see the war ...
8. They have to think about compensation for us due to the uneven nature of benefiting from our respective traits ...
fe3333au
Deity
From Whomp ... bit editted as some non-game related stuff ... we share similar interests ...
My Response
Reply to my ... yet again
reference to the uneven nature of our relationship ...
I have bolded the reason for this discussion ... I feel that we are in a favourable position of trust and friendship which may lead to some compensation for the KISS' expansion advantage ...
So I would like you all to think about this ... we will have to handle this very delicately ...
My thoughts are we need compansation for being able to be out expanded ... what form should this be ...
The current Agreement is that we sell tech to each other at 20% discount ... yet and the same time I believe that KISS expect us to 'give' them Writing ... so we do all negotiation with D-Nuts and put up the trade items
Q1. Should we at least get compensation from KISS for this?
Q2. KISS also say they will 'give' us any trade they get from TNT ... I believe that TNT will be a difficult team to trade with ... so what if they don't get anything from TNT?
I don't want to see 70% of our continent being KISS controlled ... how can we (as gentlemen) slow this down ...
Q3. Do we divide the land up 50%?
Q4. Do we get 'gifted' every xth settler ... ie we lead and escort the settler to a position and KISS founds a city which is then gifted to us?
Q4a. What should the value of x be ... 7 ... 10 ... 15 ??
What do you guys think ... the worst they can do is laught at the proposterous nature of the discussion topic ... and they very well may come up with another compensation solution?
Q5. Maybe another option is that 1 in x captured cities are gifted to us ... where x is ... 3 ... 4 ... 5 ??
Whomp said:
My Response
Whomp said:
Reply to my ... yet again
reference to the uneven nature of our relationship ...whomp said:As far as the ag trait I'm not sure what MIA would propose. Let us know what your expectations are so we can commiserate amongst our anarchist idiots.
On science you have the obvious advantage of contact and the capability to trade with Donuts. Hopefully we can reciprocate in this regard soon and the Admiral is cracking the whip as we speak.
We are fully confident with our growth that we should be able to maintain a very high level of research even without a scientific trait. Tell us what you expect from us if you believe co-researching to republic is unfair if you receive writing.
The unfortunate aspect of each our research choices was the overlap where anticipated MIA and Donuts would run straight to writing or pottery. We only hit 50% on that guess.
I have bolded the reason for this discussion ... I feel that we are in a favourable position of trust and friendship which may lead to some compensation for the KISS' expansion advantage ...
So I would like you all to think about this ... we will have to handle this very delicately ...
My thoughts are we need compansation for being able to be out expanded ... what form should this be ...
The current Agreement is that we sell tech to each other at 20% discount ... yet and the same time I believe that KISS expect us to 'give' them Writing ... so we do all negotiation with D-Nuts and put up the trade items
Q1. Should we at least get compensation from KISS for this?
Q2. KISS also say they will 'give' us any trade they get from TNT ... I believe that TNT will be a difficult team to trade with ... so what if they don't get anything from TNT?
I don't want to see 70% of our continent being KISS controlled ... how can we (as gentlemen) slow this down ...
Q3. Do we divide the land up 50%?
Q4. Do we get 'gifted' every xth settler ... ie we lead and escort the settler to a position and KISS founds a city which is then gifted to us?
Q4a. What should the value of x be ... 7 ... 10 ... 15 ??
What do you guys think ... the worst they can do is laught at the proposterous nature of the discussion topic ... and they very well may come up with another compensation solution?
Q5. Maybe another option is that 1 in x captured cities are gifted to us ... where x is ... 3 ... 4 ... 5 ??
Im not sure I really follow this discussion. Correct me if Im wrong, but I think we are saying that because we are scientific, we expect to pull ahead in research. If we exchange techs freely, then we end up giving more than we receive so we need some other compensation.
Their counterargument is that because they are agricultural, they will grow faster. Their growth will enable them to keep up with us in research so exchanges will be fair and no compensation is necessary.
Although I will always like the thought of them giving us something at any time, I think they have a stronger argument than we do. I dont think it is a foregone conclusion that we will be able to outresearch them despite our scientific trait.
The idea of them giving us settlers will be outrageous to them and even suggesting it may damage our recently attained positive relationship. If we insist on pursuing compensation, then I think it may be slightly more realistic to ask for workers. We could consider having them do work for us (to avoid the inefficiency of slaves), but it would take so long to walk from their home to ours that it damages our growth as a continent too much. If we go with slaves, we could even give them back after a predetermined number of turns.
But honestly, I would just drop the compensation issue right now. If it turns out we are outresearching them, we can reexamine the issue, but right now I think it is more important to continue to develop trust and teamwork instead of arguing over hypotheticals.
Regarding Writing, it is certainly not clear that we will get it, but if we do, I think we should instantly gift it to KISS without hesitation. I also hope it will be made clear to them that we intend to do this so that even if we dont actually get Writing, they know our intentions are good. If we are unwilling to give Writing to try to secure the Republic slingshot for our continent knowing that they will pay us back with techs as soon as they can, then our continental alliance is basically a sham, and it is MIA who is at fault. Consider what our reaction would be if KISS met Donuts (next turn?), traded for writing, and wanted our help in getting the slingshot, but also wanted immediate compensation.
I dont think we need to argue about details and hypothetical future problems with KISS right now. With their agricultural trait, we can expect them to settle greater than 50% of our continent. With our scientific and commercial traits, we can expect our (slightly smaller) share of the continent to be as productive as theirs. I may be being very naïve, but I am convinced they have honorable intentions and have been very open with us. I think they really intend to ensure that we are the last 2 teams standing, and I think we should pursue this alliance to its fullest and not quibble.
Who gets the soapbox next?
Their counterargument is that because they are agricultural, they will grow faster. Their growth will enable them to keep up with us in research so exchanges will be fair and no compensation is necessary.
Although I will always like the thought of them giving us something at any time, I think they have a stronger argument than we do. I dont think it is a foregone conclusion that we will be able to outresearch them despite our scientific trait.
The idea of them giving us settlers will be outrageous to them and even suggesting it may damage our recently attained positive relationship. If we insist on pursuing compensation, then I think it may be slightly more realistic to ask for workers. We could consider having them do work for us (to avoid the inefficiency of slaves), but it would take so long to walk from their home to ours that it damages our growth as a continent too much. If we go with slaves, we could even give them back after a predetermined number of turns.
But honestly, I would just drop the compensation issue right now. If it turns out we are outresearching them, we can reexamine the issue, but right now I think it is more important to continue to develop trust and teamwork instead of arguing over hypotheticals.
Regarding Writing, it is certainly not clear that we will get it, but if we do, I think we should instantly gift it to KISS without hesitation. I also hope it will be made clear to them that we intend to do this so that even if we dont actually get Writing, they know our intentions are good. If we are unwilling to give Writing to try to secure the Republic slingshot for our continent knowing that they will pay us back with techs as soon as they can, then our continental alliance is basically a sham, and it is MIA who is at fault. Consider what our reaction would be if KISS met Donuts (next turn?), traded for writing, and wanted our help in getting the slingshot, but also wanted immediate compensation.
I dont think we need to argue about details and hypothetical future problems with KISS right now. With their agricultural trait, we can expect them to settle greater than 50% of our continent. With our scientific and commercial traits, we can expect our (slightly smaller) share of the continent to be as productive as theirs. I may be being very naïve, but I am convinced they have honorable intentions and have been very open with us. I think they really intend to ensure that we are the last 2 teams standing, and I think we should pursue this alliance to its fullest and not quibble.
Who gets the soapbox next?
My turn, since the rest of you have opted for silence, at the moment...
Chamnix has raised a good point: It could be that their agricultural trait and our scientific trait will balance out in the long term..... But I raise this point once more:
Unless things have been modified, the Celts are Religious & Militaristic
EDIT: I stand corrected... yet another casualty of not having the latest version
Therefore, this hang-up on compensation for our trait strength may only serve, as Chamnix wisely indicated, to infuriate our cooperative neighbors. We will show our ignorance on our sleeve as we taint this dearly-won alliance.
Like Chamnix says, if we find, over the years, that we are giving more than we feel we should be, we can visit the issue then. For now, we have an agreement, negotiated in good faith, to offer Most Favored Nation status to eachother. We have an agreement, negotiated in good faith, for the both of us to coordinate towards a Republican Contintent. Once there, our commercial trait will really supercharge our economy, pulling us further ahead research-wise. If anything, they are helping us by sharing Republic-path technologies with us.
We should treat their assuptive pledge of peace, which completely castrates their UU and one of their abilities to engage a Golden Age, with caution. We should not forgoe defenses, but we should certainly cooperate to not simply the letter of our agreement, but also the Spirit.
This citizen has spoken, and so the soapbox is available...
Chamnix has raised a good point: It could be that their agricultural trait and our scientific trait will balance out in the long term..... But I raise this point once more:
Unless things have been modified, the Celts are Religious & Militaristic
EDIT: I stand corrected... yet another casualty of not having the latest version
Therefore, this hang-up on compensation for our trait strength may only serve, as Chamnix wisely indicated, to infuriate our cooperative neighbors. We will show our ignorance on our sleeve as we taint this dearly-won alliance.
Like Chamnix says, if we find, over the years, that we are giving more than we feel we should be, we can visit the issue then. For now, we have an agreement, negotiated in good faith, to offer Most Favored Nation status to eachother. We have an agreement, negotiated in good faith, for the both of us to coordinate towards a Republican Contintent. Once there, our commercial trait will really supercharge our economy, pulling us further ahead research-wise. If anything, they are helping us by sharing Republic-path technologies with us.
We should treat their assuptive pledge of peace, which completely castrates their UU and one of their abilities to engage a Golden Age, with caution. We should not forgoe defenses, but we should certainly cooperate to not simply the letter of our agreement, but also the Spirit.
This citizen has spoken, and so the soapbox is available...
Kentharu
Zebra Commander
*steps into the soapbox*
well now for my 2 cents i say let them do what they want after full settling is done then we can deal with conpensation or whatever, i highly doubt they would go to all this trouble of being nice and all to just backstab us all of you have good points as per usual but i have mine and well, i like mine anyway whatever our future president chooses will be fine with me
i'll do my diplomat thingy and everything will be fine
well now for my 2 cents i say let them do what they want after full settling is done then we can deal with conpensation or whatever, i highly doubt they would go to all this trouble of being nice and all to just backstab us all of you have good points as per usual but i have mine and well, i like mine
anyway whatever our future president chooses will be fine with me i'll do my diplomat thingy and everything will be fine
peter grimes said:
A lot of things were modified in C3C. The Celts are now Religious and Agricultural (not militaristic). From the civilopedia:
I absolutely agree with your other points about taking their UU out of play and adhering to the spirit of the agreement and not just the letter.
fe3333au
Deity
So making their UU impotent is compensation enough ?
Hmmm ... as I mentioned and you can see I am not pushing it ... just suggesting that questions may be asked ...
Hmmm ... as I mentioned and you can see I am not pushing it ... just suggesting that questions may be asked ...
fe3333au
Deity
OK todays chat ... KISS were eager to find out if we had contact with D-Nuts
Actually Tubby_Rower and Whomp together and independantly swooped as soon as I was connected ...
Present
>Whomp
>Tubby_Rower
>Bebe
>Admiral K
after
>Kentharu
>Emp.Nap
Topic - What is going on in the other lands
Conclusion
D-Nuts razed TNT City
also KISS have confirmed 3 cities
Arrived in our Mail Box
Actually Tubby_Rower and Whomp together and independantly swooped as soon as I was connected ...
Present
>Whomp
>Tubby_Rower
>Bebe
>Admiral K
after
>Kentharu
>Emp.Nap
Topic - What is going on in the other lands
You have just entered room "chat7178518822338063137."
fe3333au: Good Morning?
bawhomp: morning. strong coffee?
fe3333au: Are you inviting KC Venders?
bawhomp: yes one sec
bawhomp: second
KC Venters has entered the room.
KC Venters: alright
bawhomp: hi
Skippyshutt has entered the room.
KC Venters: fe have you guys talked to d'nuts?
fe3333au: Wow this party all for litle ole me ... Oh :-
fe3333au: 1 sec ... you eager beavers ... I must have 1st coffe of day .. I hear the whistle
fe3333au: Re D-Nuts let me visit my Foreign Affairs office ... I have a key
bawhomp: can we have one too?
fe3333au: no we have not ... I sent a PM asking for a meeting and they gave me a not right now
KC Venters: I would hold off on discussin the posibility of a war over there when you do talk to them
bawhomp: they are under pressure!!
fe3333au: Ginger_Ale's mesage in interesting ... no?
KC Venters: yes very
fe3333au: I have instructed Emp to try to chat ... they can always say no .. but he may get info
KC Venters: We have a few conspiracies that say maybe there is no war over there right now
bawhomp: They have too much to think about if they're the attacker in my view.
fe3333au: I think boy taking turns ... took undefended city ... and now the statesmen of the teams are trying to avert war and get compensation difficult cos can't trade cities yet I think
KC Venters: It doesn't make sense the more I think about it
Skippyshutt has entered the room.
Skippyshutt: greetings
fe3333au: Hi
Skippyshutt: what r we discussin?
KC Venters: possibility of no war over across the sea
fe3333au: Trouble in the other faroff lands
Skippyshutt: any conclusions
KC Venters: none yet
Wrong Conclusion on my Part ... Thinking aloud as i pace
fe3333au: So what is the hold up ... not technical
bawhomp: fe thinks a undefended city was taken and now they're negotiating peace
fe3333au: only thing I can see has to do with tech ... or other option ... and I work good with first coffee
bawhomp: seems aggressive when you haven't made friends overseas yet
KC Venters: D'nuts are very confused ... attackers aren't normally that confused
fe3333au: is that one team is in a position to take a city and there is a ransom discussion happening
D-Nuts Send Turn
fe3333au: BUT the FACT say ... either 1 city swapped hands or razed .. yes?
KC Venters: no not necessarrily
bawhomp: turn just sent to tnt!!!
KC Venters: at least 7 tiles were lost somehow ... We were able to see next turns scores after the save & exit was selected ... TNT's score still increased but by 2 instead of 3 the previous turn ... gulp gulp ... coffee makes my brain work
bawhomp: jamaican blue...yummie my favorite
fe3333au: The other thing ... Provo wasn't jumping up and down ... therefore big talks happening b/w TNT and Nuts
KC Venters: he's been warned 2 times already about that so he might have grown up ... doubt it but it's a possibility
bawhomp: he was late last turn too
fe3333au: We chose not to make a fuss ...
KC Venters: GA's comment to d'nuts "I understand this save will take time." ... emphasis added by me ... but why did he say "this save"
fe3333au: and then the But ... stop holding up the game
fe3333au: so maybe their was heaps on PM and chat ... cos ... ummm ... irreversible conflict ??
KC Venters: war still doesn't sit right with me ... somethings wrong with that picture and I can't put my finger on it
fe3333au: TNT score up by 2 instead of 3 ... does that mean TNT did not take a city?
Skippyshutt has left the room.
fe3333au: 7 tiles lost ... means more city was razed ...
KC Venters: if anyone took a city it was d'nut ... 1 city = 9 tiles
bawhomp: not if there's overlap
FACTS Stated
fe3333au: Lets look deeper ... City is not capitol ... so another city ... no temples have been made
KC Venters: correct
bawhomp: capital shares two tiles.
fe3333au: so if a city with 1 pop is taken ... it is razed ... Does that fit the numbers?
KC Venters: I think ... I don't know the exact formula for the score or I could figure it out
fe3333au: So the reason that D-Nuts have not come crying to us is that they did the deed?
KC Venters: not only that they haven't been spawning settlers since turn 21 out of their capital
fe3333au: stupid on their part ... and Provo is pissed off ?
KISS City Numbers Confirmed
KC Venters: we have the most territory right now with 44 tiles and we only have 3 cities ... so the other 2 teams have 3 or less cities
Possibility Listing
KC Venters: other possiblities....of tile loss, ... abandoning a city ... volcano
fe3333au: have you seen a volcano in your travels? ... we have not
KC Venters: no volcanoes in our exploration
Admin Action a Possibility
KC Venters: possiblities of pop gain ... joiing worker/settlers ... admin action
fe3333au: Admin action !?! ... good didn't even think of that !
fe3333au: Why abandon city ?
KC Venters: Why attack someone this early with out a stack of warriors at least
fe3333au: can barbs raze a city?
bawhomp: no
KC Venters: no razing from barbs
bawhomp: money only ... or a build
fe3333au: thought so
KC Venters: they can reduce pop but not after it is pop 1
bawhomp: can emp just ask....what's going on fellas? things seem strange...
fe3333au: He has sent an e-mail ... He also has some MSMs and AIM adresses but they are no active ... so we are doing all we can ... Oh and the other part of their return PM ... was sorry about the delay please bear with us ... so they appologized for the delay
Admin Action Scenarios Explored
fe3333au: Admin action would it not be advertised to us all??
KC Venters: admin action wouldn't necessarily if it would contain spoiler info
OConorD has entered the room.
KC Venters: OConorD is Bede
bawhomp: fe this is bede
KC Venters: I still don't know what could be happening over across the sea... but I'll keep noodling on it
fe3333au: so if administrator action ... the debate could be internal ... but I don't think that admin thing is happening ... doesn't 'feel' right
bawhomp: he asked for a delay within 2 hours of receiving the save.
KC Venters: neither does the war ... the admin would have been on TNT since they have the highest score (territory) and gained 3 pop in their capital in one turn.
bawhomp: something was immediately up
KC Venters: it was 5 hours but yes something was askew
OConorD: What admin action are we talking about here...I'm just a little behind the curve
fe3333au: actually if the turn player made a mistake and razed a city ... I'm sure turn could be taken again ... and then that's where the admins come in?
KC Venters: I proposed some possibilities of different explanations for the F11 weirdness
bawhomp: Bede-Ginger Ale gave them a specific time today ... admin action was one of those possibilities
KC Venters: I have 5 minutes guys
fe3333au: in pbem it is not kosha to re-take a turn ...
OConorD: Ah, I beginto understand.
fe3333au: I'm at a loss ... war is the only option ... add that to stupidity of the game play ... an accident occured and now they are tying to appease each other
KC Venters: I will concede to the war for now but it still doesn't sit right with me.
bawhomp: awfully big accident losing 7 tiles
fe3333au: Loss of city ... only explaination ... do all the numbers concurr?
KC Venters: loss of city is a definate
fe3333au: but which team?
KC Venters: why they (presumably TNT) lost a city I don't know
bawhomp: palace jump?
KC Venters: no we would have seen the capital off of the top 5 cities
OConorD: Can we ask them?
KC Venters: KISS can't MIA can if they'd talk
bawhomp: MIA has tried and won't accept their envoy
KC Venters: ok fellas I'm off.
KC Venters has left the room.
fe3333au: I don't have any intel ... My PM was knocked back ... I have instructed Emp to use your ambush strategy ;-) ... to get a chat ... however I suspect that they will stay dumb until they wish to speak as we both would
bawhomp: ambush strategy?
bawhomp: the what's going on over there question?
Explanation of Ambush Strategy
fe3333au: I turn on computer and then suddenly every one want to talk to me ;-) ... before I even made coffee ... he he
bawhomp: heh crazy americans
OConorD: staying up late at night to bedevil the Aussies
bawhomp: Cheers!
fe3333au: Amen ... This is wonderfully frustrating ... what a fantastic game
bawhomp: Skippy has wanted you two to talk for a long time.
fe3333au: So the fact is that Nut -> TNT ... or ... TNT -> Nuts ... If 1. logical to approach MIA (who they know a bristluing with military tech AND eager to trade)
OConorD: The risk here is in the word logical
fe3333au: Actually loical to approach us in both cases ... even and especiallly when talking with TNT ... he he ... Therefore I previously thought it was an over zealous play that went wrong ... but why sooo long to act
OConorD: Over zealous in terms of warfare, or something a little more devious>
bawhomp: That's my question ... And knowing it would be a long delay very early into the 24 hour window
fe3333au: over zealous as in turn taker took a city
bawhomp: Nah...both teams delayed last turn
fe3333au: but why mvement is 1 so surelt TNT would have chatted a plea to give Peace a chance
bawhomp: TNT was past the 24 hr limit too
The Wandering Warrior Theory
fe3333au: OK ... Whomp ... reason was an exploring warrior approached a city
bawhomp: Tribute?
fe3333au: field of sight is how many tiles?
bawhomp: depends on terrain
fe3333au: ie how long to move to a city when both have been sighted?
bawhomp: two tiles at least IIRC
fe3333au: flat ... imply that both kknew at the same time
fe3333au: yep 2 tiles ... equals 2 turns to take a newly seen city?
bawhomp: correct
fe3333au: turn 1 ... sight
fe3333au: turn 2 ... just outside
fe3333au: turn 3 ... raze
fe3333au: yes?
bawhomp: seems to be the case.
OConorD: So far so good I think
fe3333au: OK turn 2 ... turn held up ... chatting
bawhomp: but donut doesn't want military techs...why?
fe3333au: D-Nuts have broze Working ... defensive
bawhomp: ah correct it's all they really need at that point
fe3333au: so say it was TNT who is moving ...
fe3333au: anyway turn 2 chat ... and then warning
fe3333au: turn 3 ... raze ... and oops what have we done?
bawhomp: no way. Provo would have a heart attack
fe3333au: So we will have to see how long TNT take
OConorD: So the sewuence I'm seeing is TNT hit a "nut town?
fe3333au: one of only two possible scenarios ... excluding an admin ... and volcano
Thinking as D-Nut being Attacked
bawhomp: score will reveal much. I'm with you but why is donut shutting you out in a time of need.
fe3333au: What can we do? ... Wheel !!! is what we can do ... but this early only limited number of cities
bawhomp: They need it for their UU
fe3333au: so even if they get wheel ... maybe production is not good ... and maybe they only have limited warriors ... one of which is exploring far way
bawhomp: still need to find where the horses are before they settle their next city
fe3333au: so they are really f@%$ed ... no defence and an angry Provo in war mode ... that feels rightish ... what you think?
bawhomp: I don't understand why they'd cut off contact though. Seems strange to me.
OConorD: It is speculative in the extreme, but maybe I don't understand the psychology over there, so I'm not seeing the connections right ... Whomp's comment puts it right on the button. ... Were I in nutter's shoes in that scenario I would be looking for all the help I could get
fe3333au: lets say cities are close together ... we have yet to visit them ... they may have over extended and put off building defense units ... We are too far away ... all we could give is gold = worthless and tech
bawhomp: But horses ... so valuable to them
fe3333au: not is the short term
bawhomp: Before their next city IMO
fe3333au: I think they are in a the sky is falling and the enemy are at the door scenario ... without many units to defend and certainly any agressive units which it is too late to build
bawhomp: but why the cockiness in front of you. I'd think it would be a voice of desperation.
fe3333au: and it only took 3 turns for this to happen bawhomp: but now they won't talk ... strange.
fe3333au: They see no reason?
bawhomp: get out of a despot is plenty of reason for anyone.
fe3333au: If you had been arogant ... we are the best in tech you small fries ... and we will call you don't call us goodbye ... would you contact me with tail b/w legs? ... knowing I could do nothing to help ... becasue you don't have enough defensive units in your town
bawhomp: I'd want to find a partner to join me later assuming I was still around and more importantly I would want you to know I was going down to Provo. Just me though.
fe3333au: me too ...
bawhomp: They don't seem to need a partner.
fe3333au: Nothing else makes sense ... we can but wait and see if TNT take time ... maybe if we both jump on any over long turn taking on their part?
OConorD: It is in their hands now
fe3333au: yep
Kentharu1 has entered the room.
Kentharu1: yo
OConorD: Howdy K, BroBede here
fe3333au: didn't know you were around Hi
fe3333au: We have been trying to figure what is happening on the other continemt
Kentharu1: oh right that city
fe3333au: Yep
Kentharu1: well i got my idea (war between TNT and KISS)
fe3333au: Also why D-Nuts are not talking to us
Kentharu1: blah no KISS ... D-nut grrr
Facts Again wrt TNT Aggressor
fe3333au: Fact is 1 city razed
Kentharu1: k
fe3333au: so an assumption is that TNT are agressor ... and have found undefended city and razed it ... They are steadiliy moving to another city ... and it may also be undefended
bawhomp: Emp really needs to express disappoinment IMO.
fe3333au: Yes
Kentharu1: think we should help d-nut? ... with techs and what not i mean
fe3333au: It is not the way neighbors should act
fe3333au: Writing for Wheel ... and Wrrior Code ... nothing else ... they were @#%$ last time we met
bawhomp: One theory says we play them both
fe3333au: yep if you meet up with TNT ... taht would probably fill in a lot of gaps
Kentharu1: and that would be very very good for both of us ... since we share all info
NO NO fe NOT Taken
fe3333au: So they have taken a city
Kentharu1: how many cities did they have? ... 3 or 2?
fe3333au: tubby calculated so the other 2 teams have 3 or less cities
OConorD has left the room.
fe3333au: So prediction is that TNT and Nuts have 3 cities ... so Nuts now have 2 cities ... far out ... pretty scary ... This scenario would also work the other way round ... but TNT agressor works with why Nuts are not talking
Kentharu1: scary indeed ... can't imagine Provo as the all mighty ruller of a whole contienent!:-\
TNT Save Sent
fe3333au: OConorD: just AIMed me that game sent ... I'm gonna look at the save
Kentharu1: k
bawhomp: provo's comments.. Turn 36 sent TNT ... We are all good my friend
Kentharu1: perhaps a taunt, knowning Provo and his sarcasm it probably is
fe3333au: Why is it that when Provo says something like that ... it has a sinister tone ... even with a smilie
fe3333au: Taking time sorry
Kentharu1: cause everyone knows what he is like
SAVE INFO
fe3333au: D-Nut Militay same wrt MIA
fe3333au: MIA is second in land area
bawhomp: wow ... what was their military last turn do you remember?
bawhomp: did you capture f11?
fe3333au: I have too many windows open
fe3333au: but that suggests undefended city yes
fe3333au: D-Nuts is still top rival in % population
fe3333au: so TNT lost city?
fe3333au: 140 D-Nuts ... TNT 160
fe3333au: Anything else ?
EmperorNapoloen has entered the room.
bawhomp: It seems that tnt tailed off if i'm reading it right.
fe3333au: I will get previous F-11 ... hi emp
EmperorNapoloen: hey
bawhomp: from what I can see on the graph it was TNT's loss. Strange...why won't donut talk? .. strange .. so many questions so few answers.
fe3333au: yes
fe3333au: Comparison of VP next
Kentharu1: i think d-nut simple has to much on their plate
fe3333au: Nutter from 137 -> 140
fe3333au: TNT from 158 -> 160
fe3333au: any other comparison info help this analysis
Kentharu1: not to big a jump
fe3333au: Turn before TNT = 155, Nutters = 134
Another Aggressor
bawhomp: donut stayed at 3 but tnt has dropped from 5 to 4 to 4 to 3 to 2 this turn
fe3333au: so TNT jumped only 2 not expected 3
fe3333au: Whomp your figures relate to what?
bawhomp: per turn
fe3333au: VPs?
fe3333au: yep ... we were posting same thing
bawhomp: yes they only increased 2 this turn so their slope is flattening
fe3333au: so TNT has lost a city
bawhomp: Donut did it ... lol
fe3333au: lol yes
bawhomp: great minds think at the same time
fe3333au: But why if they have no tech ... hold on ... well tnt havn't traded any of the military techs we have ... or ... it wouldn't show up yet would it?
bawhomp: maybe it's in transit?
fe3333au: even if it was gifted D-Nuts would not have received until after your turn
fe3333au: Any luck with contact Emp?
EmperorNapoloen: I emailed them ... and none of them have been on AIM or MSN for a while
bawhomp: Emp. I feel sorry for ya. You've got your work cut out for you. Gentlemen on that note I think
EmperorNapoloen: lo
fe3333au: cya Whomp
EmperorNapoloen: farwell
fe3333au: I'll post this on the thread
bawhomp has left the room.
EmperorNapoloen has left the room.
Kentharu1 has left the room.
Conclusion
D-Nuts razed TNT City
also KISS have confirmed 3 cities
Arrived in our Mail Box
Also KISS Agreement II Documents Archived here in the Vault
