Old Abilities With New Synergies in R&F

[Thibaulthc]

I always play with two mods that add (a) walls to CS upon their founding and (b) additional starting units for CS. I find that it has a pretty significant affect on the speed at which, and total number of, conquered CS - especially early game

One of the most significative difference I noticed in RnF is that CS now have much bigger armies, make corps and armies, and upgrade their units.
And they are more aggressive than ever! I even lost a city to a CS attack in my first RnF game. On Emperor. That's one of the very first city I lose in Civ VI in 600h
I'll go back to Imortal today, maybe it's fairly different. But I tend to ally and protect all the CS I meet asap.

Really? A combat bonus for visibility? I had no idea! Is this bonus visible on the diplomatic screen or somewhere?

It's displayed under the modifiers for combat strength just before you attack. It's called "Intel on enemy movements"

It's +3 / level of visibility. So you may have +9 with Catherine or the Great Person with the same ability (GM?) I think (ability, Spy on Listening Plot mission, and a embassy when they don't have one)
First time in my life I've been setting my spies on this Listening Thing mission

 

[Softly]

One of the most significative difference I noticed in RnF is that CS now have much bigger armies, make corps and armies, and upgrade their units.
And they are more aggressive than ever! I even lost a city to a CS attack in my first RnF game. On Emperor. That's one of the very first city I lose in Civ VI in 600h
I'll go back to Imortal today, maybe it's fairly different. But I tend to ally and protect all the CS I meet asap.

And they need too with all the AI constantly declaring war on them. I assumed Georgia's +100% faith from protectorate wars would be trash but I've easily been able to declare 4-5 on them in my current game so far.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

One of the most significative difference I noticed in RnF is that CS now have much bigger armies, make corps and armies, and upgrade their units.
And they are more aggressive than ever! I even lost a city to a CS attack in my first RnF game. On Emperor. That's one of the very first city I lose in Civ VI in 600h
I'll go back to Imortal today, maybe it's fairly different. But I tend to ally and protect all the CS I meet asap.



It's +3 / level of visibility. So you may have +9 with Catherine or the Great Person with the same ability (GM?) I think (ability, Spy on Listening Plot mission, and a embassy when they don't have one)
First time in my life I've been setting my spies on this Listening Thing mission

My first game had a City State with the Pyramids. I wish I would have screenshotted it.

Now what happened is that it had been invaded and taken over, then liberated many many years later by one of the other AI. But it still looked weird.

 

[Ever Adrift]

One of the most significative difference I noticed in RnF is that CS now have much bigger armies, make corps and armies, and upgrade their units.
And they are more aggressive than ever! I even lost a city to a CS attack in my first RnF game. On Emperor. That's one of the very first city I lose in Civ VI in 600h
I'll go back to Imortal today, maybe it's fairly different. But I tend to ally and protect all the CS I meet asap.

I have noticed that CS are more militant when the civ they are a suzerain of goes to war - I actually wiped out Indonesia (which had 4 cities and a decent army for it being early classical era at the time) because I was the Suzerain of Mohenjo-Daro and Bandar Brunei which just so happened to be stuck partially between us... the CSs razed one city, had the capital ready for me to march my chariot into and basically took the other two cities for me...

Perhaps I'll get into the mod and edit it so that they do start with extra units, just not so many.

 

[Japper007]

Rome should be fun with Ancestral Hall and Magnus’ promotion to not lose a population when training a settler. Spam out settlers and have the free monument and road to the new city.

Rome should be able to make quick, powerful empires. Just like it should be.

The free monument also means that you can forward settle without having to build a painfully slow monument first in cities under pressure, Rome is the forward plant king!

 

[Ever Adrift]

Someone should start a list!

Gitarja’s +2 faith to any city center that is adjacent to water combined with her costal bias means that she has a very good chance at goddess of the harvest every game, which is OP when combined with Magnus and Monumentality.

I don't think it's overpowered - she doesn't always start on the coast, just near it (and the AI never seems to move their settler to the coast). Additionally, while it certainly gives her a good shot at Earth Goddess - especially played by a human - she's by no means guaranteed it. I've been the first to come across multiple religious CS in the first 10 turns - just two is enough to bolt you ahead.

 

[Ferocitus]

Gitarja’s +2 faith to any city center that is adjacent to water combined with her costal bias means that she has a very good chance at goddess of the harvest every game, which is OP when combined with Magnus and Monumentality.

Nearly all civs can seem very powerful if they have everything in
their favour, e.g. starting location, amenities, neighbours, etc.

Gitarja won't seem OP for long if she has Monte and Gilgamesh as next-door
neighbours.

 

[PYITE]

You have misread my post

I didn’t mean Gitarja is OP. I meant she has the best chance of any of the civs to get the most OP thing in the game right now which is Goddess of harvest.
So to summarize:
Gitarja is not OP
Goddess of the harvest is OP

 

[Stavangerchj]

I played a game with Australia on King difficulty and standard fractal map. Sometime around turn 180, Chandragupta forward settled a city (Bangalore) just south of one of my large cities (Perth).

Thanks to the new loyalty system and a governor in Perth, Bangalore was rebelling like clockwork every 10 turns. Needless to say I stationed a few units around the perimeter of the city, liberated it everytime it flipped, and maintained 100% global production bonus for the rest of the game.

Made me feel a little guilty for the exploit... but I wasn't above refusing a gift thrown in my lap.

Spoiler :

 

[Victoria]

Goddess of the harvest is OP

I feel it has been watered down really. Not really convinced you need the extra faith.

England’s RNDY/CH triangle mixed with Reyna and a dual classical/medieval golden age with free enquiry is fun. It’s not OP but is different and workable. What I like about it is your need to get double golden ages which can be a challenge. It’s something that can be done on a remote island and to be honest the only difference England has is the half price RNDY, getting off continent early enough is not really that simple.
The benefit is as well as great early science you get really great gold. It also allows very strong production from shipyards.
For this strategy I would not take goddess but a culture one like open sky if possible.

I’ll play a few more games then guess I’ll do a write up. It does require non standard paths.

 

[Datian]

Civs that generate massive amounts of faith, like Arabia, Russia, Khmer, Indonesia, can use and abuse of the monumentality GA dedication (buy settlers, workers, traders with faith) :
- grab goddess of the harvest and chop around
- promote Magnus with the "no population loss when training a settler"
- ...ICS

Add the ancestral hall to also have a worker when settling, chop a commercial hub and a market, buy a trader with faith, rinse and repeat.

You can also forward settle with 2-3 cities at the same time, chop population, they will support each other.

Now you only have to pull a classical age GA with Arabia, which is not that easy

 

[Gbest]

I think the new ability of Persia to get an additional +5 Loyalty (+10 in total) for occupied cities with a garrison unit is quite strong. You don't need to move governors to your conquered cities.

 

[Pythakoreas]

Roleplay as Queen Elizabeth I as England in Renaissance. Visionary of the East India Company and supporter of Francis Drake.

Get the naval Dedication, extremely powerful. Build the RNDY and train Sea Dogs, Era Scores for each. And fight some other navies around the world. Guaranteed Golden Age by Industrial (Victorian Era?)

Plan to colonize some other continents, your cities start with extra population. Build RNDY in these cities too.

 

[EgonSpengler]

There is a negative synergy for early war with civs that have special early units. Captured cities flip too easily. One really needs the first governor in play before starting wars else there's a fairly annoying and regular change in loyalty for captured cities. I was surprised that this negative loyalty accrued for captured capitals, too. Once you get one or two guvs, it's not so bad, but having cities flip constantly in the early game puts a damper on expansion.

I think that's a significant improvement, personally. Early warfare is the express lane to an easy victory; stomp your neighbor and then you have two capitals and all the space in between by the time warmongering penalties start to accrue. That's 'game over, man', most of the time. And Civs with early UUs are of course better equipped to do it. The Aztecs, just to name one, are a freakin' lawnmower. I almost feel like I'm cheating when I play them. (Or at least I used to. I haven't played them under R&F rules yet.)

 

[PYITE]

I feel it has been watered down really. Not really convinced you need the extra faith.
]

I feel just the opposite; faith is super useful now because of monumentality. Sadly founding a religion is still very weak.

Have you gotten a classic golden age with goddess of the harvest? It is crazy OP. You will not have to worry about a medieval golden age it will be almost automatic.

With Magnus you can chop in armies, wonders and districts and use the resulting faith to buy settlers, traders and workers. The 30% discount is huge and having 2 extra movement points for your horde of builders is very helpful because it allows you to chop everything in a city very quickly and Magnus gets to move on to the next city after only a turn or two.

That’s a pretty sweet RNDY and a strategy that looks very strong.

 

[Victoria]

That’s a pretty sweet RNDY and a strategy that looks very strong.

Its quite situational and requires a specific strategy to work well as you really need a double golden. It is not a strong as say a Gilga cart but it is different, engaging and like the old science victory before being nerfed. If someone wants to play something a bit different its worth a try.

Magnus gets to move on to the next city after only a turn or two

But does take 5 turns, yes its a settler/builder spam but does increase the price of things later, What I am trying to say is you can get some of it without the harvest, it just does not snowball like with the harvest. Also its about the resources you have to harvest, you need to save some for universities and harvesting too much too early can be a risk.

The 30% discount is huge and having 2 extra movement points

Sure it is OP I am just not convinced it is all encompassing yet. I am as much playing devils advocate here, I have played it and it was revoltingly good but I ended up with lots of stuff running around with few chopping places left to settle and lots of builders to park half used. I think with restraint it is strong, you are still limited by Magnus and you can typically buy enough builders with the conquered faith you can have got by then. The culture pantheons to me are becoming more important now. ... Just too early for me to have a clear picture.

 

[NauticalStrike]

Faith is soooo useful for warmongering now. Build up an early army, secure some cities with holy sites, and use the faith to keep your military going. The tier 2 govt building that allows you to buy any unit with faith basically means that corps/armies are free, given that you weren't using faith anyway. Added synergy with Shaka. Did this in a game as mongolia, and even warring on two fronts I had immediately made corps/armies once I unlocked the civic due to saved up faith.

 

[Zike]

Yep. Kinda silly that faith is just a currency to buy units and stuff. We already have a currency.

But yea, anything that gives you free faith can be really good with both the gov building and the gold dedication.

 

[Softly]

Yep. Kinda silly that faith is just a currency to buy units and stuff. We already have a currency.

But yea, anything that gives you free faith can be really good with both the gov building and the gold dedication.

I actually really like it, as it parallels human history quite nicely. Faith and Gold were both historically used as "currencies" by the powerful to get people to do things. Drafting an army, you better be prepared to either pay them or tell them that god wants them to kill the infidels.