Old Civs Indirect Buffs/Nerfs

[SalemSage]

This thread is to discuss the current civs in game, and how they might be indirectly improved or nerfed by the new mechanics coming in BNW.

This is NOT a thread for discussing potential changes to UAs, UUs or UBs, as we are assuming that the majority, if not all, of these things will remain the same.

Frankly, it looks like Polynesia's getting a massive buff in this expansion. Given that:

a) Congress is dependent on one civ meeting every other civ in the game and researching Printing Press (the former is something Polynesia excels at)
b) Unless numbers are tweaked, the base yields of culture buildings looks to be massively reduced. This will make their UI much more attractive. They'll not only get policies faster, but they will be very difficult to outrun in terms of your tourism vs their culture.

Rome: If internal trade routes work a certain way, Rome could really enjoy this new mechanic. If a new city is building a granary, say, and an internal trade route is supplying it production, would that new city receive 5 production instead of 4 (+25%)? If so, that'll be fun to play around with. If not, oh well.

Also, given that delegates are given out by city states, it looks like Greece, Siam and Sweden will really be enjoying those... until Austria eats those city states. Nom.

Are there any existing civs you think will be improved or worsened simply by adding all these new mechanics?

 

[Matthew.]

I hope so, Polynesia could use some love.

A very indirect buff, but Civs that are generally known for barb play (Songhai, Germany, Aztecs) will likely have an easier time dealing with external trade routes and protecting them from Barbs. I know many players like to train an extra few early military units when playing those Civs.

 

[ferretbacon]

I agree that Rome could benefit from the new intra-city food/production transfer. Assuming you make your capital well-developed (which you ought to be doing on Rome), given their UA allows you to +25% production to any building already in the capital, you could further this advantage by transfering the assumed prodigious hammers your capital is generating to a new colony, getting it up to snuff very quickly.

 

[Liex]

I don't think the Roman UA will stack with internal Trade Routs in that way.

Question: How many free Great People the Mayan UA can provide? With 2 new Great People, maybe they're receiving a buff.

The Huns are going to be indirectly buffed as well, since they start with Animal Husbandry (Land Trade routes).

 

[JanghanHong]

huns will get a bump for sure, starting warrior -> ram

ram attacks another player's capital.

bam! turn 5 trade route.

 

[ehecatzin]

Mayans could go straight for a great admiral and run for World Congress as well.

If harbors turn out to give +1 sea trade routes Carthage will get a massive boost.

Rome will come out strong by internal trade routes

Egypt can turn into a tourism machine once tourism kicks in.

If natural wonders get to generate tourism, Spain will benefitas well (even more if they generate double tourism)

 

[JanghanHong]

Mayans could go straight for a great admiral and run for World Congress as well.

If harbors turn out to give +1 sea trade routes Carthage will get a massive boost.

Rome will come out strong by internal trade routes

Egypt can turn into a tourism machine once tourism kicks in.

If natural wonders get to generate tourism, Spain will benefitas well (even more if they generate double tourism)

I doubt that any NW will generate tourism by itself, because a lucky Spain will have higher tourism than other civ's culture by turn 10.

 

[Calouste]

I hope so, Polynesia could use some love.

A very indirect buff, but Civs that are generally known for barb play (Songhai, Germany, Aztecs) will likely have an easier time dealing with external trade routes and protecting them from Barbs. I know many players like to train an extra few early military units when playing those Civs.

Another buff for those civs, end specially the Aztecs, is that culture from killing barbs generated by the Honor opener might be worth more now that buildings produce less. Although that could easily be fixed by decreasing the amount of culture per kill.

 

[Calouste]

I doubt that any NW will generate tourism by itself, because a lucky Spain will have higher tourism than other civ's culture by turn 10.

Probably not from the start, but with a Industrial or Modern tech, or a policy from the Exploration tree.

 

[Matthew.]

Perhaps, but so too will the Tradition/Liberty opener. Assuming no changes to the trees, Honor will still have the same relative power against the others.

Although at this point I'm finding it hard to believe a lot of the current numbers will remain the same, both with gold and culture related items.

 

[ehecatzin]

exactly, Im expecting diferent ways to generate tourism in policies or ideologies, tourism from natural wonders seems like something that ought to be in game.

 

[Jabberwockxeno]

Aztecs may be nerfed indirectly.

 

[Snoopaloop]

Question: How many free Great People the Mayan UA can provide? With 2 new Great People, maybe they're receiving a buff.

The Mayans I think will have advantage and disadvantages with their UU.

When playing as them you had to choose each type of great person once, before yo could get a second of the same type. Having to choose that merchant, or admiral was a bummer many games. I wanted my scientist or engineer!

Having differentiated great artists could be good or bad.
1. Negative change - It takes longer (more Bak Atuns) to get back to the great person you want.
2. Positive - Getting so many great works will be more worthwhile than, and worth the trade-off of having to wait for the repeat gp's.

Great Admiral.
I think they could potentially rival Polynesia for the World Congress founder. Bak Atun 1; choose the great admiral immediately....sail the world, meet civs. Then its a science race to PP (and Maya's UB gives them an early game advantage).

 

[HaloCapella]

would you think England's sea caravans would get a boost? and I'm not sure if they actually cost an upkeep or something.

 

[ShahJahanII]

Great thread, I was considering making one myself. I think Persia might be nerfed quite a bit since only Great Painters can start Golden Ages.

 

[ShahJahanII]

would you think England's sea caravans would get a boost? and I'm not sure if they actually cost an upkeep or something.

From what I understand, the speed at which the caravan moves doesn't make a difference. Having them move around the map is only to make the game more interesting by allowing them to be captured.

 

[apocalypse105]

Arabia buff
+1 gold for each trade route

 

[MaximusK]

As far as polynesia, I would not be surprised if Maoi give +tourism at some point . . . after flight? This is needed. They'll also be able to control World Congress but we don't know how you end up with more delegates so while they may start the congress they lose control relatively easily?

 

[loserforsale]

The removal of gold from river and coast tiles will hurt seafaring civs and those with bonuses to gold generation. With the latter, I'm thinking Persia in particular due to their UA (longer Golden Ages will no longer give +1 gold to riverside tiles) and their UB (Banks will presumably be less useful, reducing the utility of the Satrap's Court). Conversely, China's Paper-maker would become a lot better due to the lack of other easy sources of gold. The Dutch UA (providing it stays the same) would similarly be buffed slightly by a reduction in alternative sources of gold.

Going to the point above about Rome, I wonder if it might be possible to, immediately upon unlocking a new building, channel production from across the Empire into Rome using trade routes, thus getting the building up asap, and then to switch the routes around for the production multiplier? This could be a very handy trick indeed.

Finally, what about Korea? Would they get +2 science from Great Works? If not, then their position as a top cultural civ would be under threat, given that you will no longer achieve a cultural victory by settling loads of Great Artists.

 

[seasnake]

i bet there a few new natural wonders that generate tourism (c'mon Everest and Victoria Falls), with spain generating double tourism.

A culture victory requires you to have met every civilization and have a certain tech if i remember rightly, so it wouldn't be that OP.