On Communism

[Clown2TheLeft]

I dislike it. Perhaps because my mode of play doesn't work with it. But if I'm going to change governments from a democracy to support a war, I would like to be able to DO something with that gold I've amassed, thus, Monarchy.

Hail to the king, baby.


Later!

--The Clown to the Left.

 

[coup d'etat]

Jeff Yu, I switched from *monarchy* to communism and was surprised at the loss of money... I was losing over 10 turns each tech and over 100 gold per turn, so it seemed to me communism was really worthless in my situation (which i was surprised by)... my core cities in monarchy were generating more money and were more productive than ALL my cities in communism, and roughly half my cities out of 60 were unproductive cities... many of my unproductive cities were at 12 population (maybe if i stuck with communism i could have put hospitals in these cities to boost them but this is the only advantage i see to communism, putting marketplaces and banks in all my unproductive cities during communism would have been time consuming and in the end i probably would only break even with what iw as doing in monarchy, thus i would have lost important productivity in my core cities for a process of probably 20 turns or so) I can see how communism might be helpful in a game where you designed an empire around switching to communism but in a normal game, to be productive up to the point communism enters play it seems like this would be a daunting task... I would be interested to hear ideas or see saves of games where communism was actually used as a long term government useful for staying competitive past the industrial ages... it seems plausible but the more i think about it, seems to me that this would require a far different approach to the game than I have ever taken in the past... might be fun

 

[Arathorn]

Check out

http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/message?forumid=189557&messageid=1035173510

for some reports on using Communism successfully (with some other restrictions, too).

Arathorn

 

[BillChin]

Originally posted by Jeff Yu
I read a post above about how someone switched from Republic to Communism and immediately started losing money and researching slower. That's not the point of Communism. Communism makes less money than Republic/Democracy, so if you're playing as a communist, you should build only the improvements you need (temple/library, barracks, courthouse, police station, possibly marketplace). Smith's trading company is a great wonder if you want to build Marketplaces, Banks, and Harbors, which can help out with money. With communism, you don't want every city to be having libraries, universities, and research labs. You have veteran spies, use those to steal techs.

Communism is NOT weak!

Communism is by far the weakest government (excluding Despotism). I believe a poll of experienced players would get 90% to 95% to agree on this point. Virtually anyone trying it in a competitive multiplayer game will need extraordinary diplomacy and trading to avoid getting waxed. Yes, Communism has some minor merits, such as 4 MP and pop rushing and spies. However, lower research than even Monarchy and sometimes even Despotism is a joke. Spies are nice, but there is no gold to conduct missions.

Communal corruption means slower wonder construction--this one point alone makes it a terrible government in a competitive game. This means a Communist has no shot at the Hoover Dam or other important wonders if that player is about even in production with other players.

As for Arathorn's post, the rules for that scenario are:
"In brief, each city must train its own worker, no overlap between cities allowed, and you must enter Communism ASAP." This is not a competitive game where Communism is choosen in order to expedite victory. It is in the category of "prettying up," in this case with rules forcing a player to less efficiently for more of a challenge.

Maybe a mod is in order where Monarchy and Communism are switched. Communism might actually be okay in the Ancient age, and Monarchy would be worthwhile as a significant upgrade to Communism for a war time government.
- Bill

 

[Tassadar]

I always wage modern war as a commi, i got about 20 cities with factory+ hover dam and each can produce panzer in 2 turn ( courthouse+police station+ 4 military police = WLKD at 0 % lux ), once i create a new city on another continent ( luxuries and strategic ressource exportation) i already have fine production in those far away city.

If you have about # optimum city in modern time+ courthouse+police station in each city, communist is very good to wage war, My spy succeed in steeling plan ( money made under democraty).

 

[coup d'etat]

Hmm well I almost always have 20 very productive cities by the modern era anyway (I normally play on standard-huge maps), once a forbidden palace is up... its managing 50 or 60 cities where you have a problem with tons of corruption and waste. I'm thinking the key to using communism correctly is in using espionage to the fullest extent, and yes, marketplaces/banks and factories in every city-- however in the switch I think you might be taking considerable losses trying to use communism well... monarchy is usually a more productive alternative, especially if you arent going to be using communism long term.

 

[Tiger_Nation]

If someone where to alter communism the best way would be to have double entertainers points to acount for how people where afraid to rebel. It should be good for huge empires over long distances because china and the soviet union were and are huge. It should have high worker speed because of the work Stalin gave to the people in his death camps and it should have a low science rate to acount for how Stalin killed a lot of his best scientists but maybe a good productivity because as Cathrine says herself in diplomacy they have a sturdy peasantry.

 

[oliver088]

Communism is very good in limited situations


1) You guys must play Continents and Pangea. In archipelago (my fav) all the water gets in the way of building cities close to your capitol. Your empire usually looks less like a circle and more like a line. Your beginning island might be so small you can fit but 10 cities on it and the closest island is 30 squares away. In this situation Monarchy is awful. If there's more water its good too since you will probably have few cities anyway.

2)In wartime, I find it very useful to be able to build things in far-off newly captured cities, such as barracks. I like a) killing the population to do it so it costs me nothing or b) just building it if the city is mined up.

3)It is very good if you are behind and losing badly. You can support a pretty big army and steal tech (getting 3 usually in one shot) with a pretty small empire (remember corruption in communism is porportional to total # of cities). I often use this strategy on emperor where I usually don't catch up until industrial times.

4) The gold thing - think about it - Here's what I do: 100% gold 0% sci. You don't pay any unit support and you can't buy stuff in your cities with gold, so you can funnel all the gold into veteran spies to steal tech. You usually get 3 tech at a time and can catch up in no time flat whereas it would take you tons of turns to catch up like that normally, esp. if you are a small empire (and thus generate little sci) - for a small empire communism is way better, especially if its spread out cos you badly just got your ass beat in a war. Once again, good when you're losin' badly.

Maybe you all just reload or somethin but in MP you don't have that option so communism is totally sweet - esp. on high difficulty, archipelagos

 

[gugalpm]

Yeah, my country has huge problems with corruption, but first:
1- Anyone asked?
2- You guys like to say things about others and don't look at yourselves
3- The corruption in my country is a result of the military dictatorship in the period of 1964 to 1985, offered and sustained by US.

 

[Tassadar]

Originally posted by gugalpm

3- The corruption in my country is a result of the military dictatorship in the period of 1964 to 1985, offered and sustained by US.

Yes and U.S. citizen still dont understand why lots of poeple doesnt like them, i think they dont know all the problem they have created by interfering into other country.

 

[Lynx]

Communist science is slow, yes (in that case how the hell did the soviets almost catch up to the US in the cold war???) but as i said imn my post, its good if you know how to use them. Im playing a russian game thats curretly in a ww2-style war with 10000 gold, and an empire that covers half of oine of those pangaea continents (this is on continents). I use my size and the fact i have mass resources and ally my cities hve factiries to create an industrial behemoth out of a weak, communist nation. But I do agree that monarchy is the peace-time choice over communism, but if you plan for war, communist is the way you would go.

 

[Sgt.Hellfish]

communism is wrong in this game however it can be used well, its best to just steer clear tho

 

[redhulkz]

Q1: i heard from players they prefer Monarchy to Communism
is monarchy really superior to commumism
IMO, communism is best war government, even IA converts to communism during a long war.

Q2: i found a fascism patch v1.21f under Mod section. mine is v1.29f, therefore, can i still use the fascism patch v1.21f?

i cannot find a v1.29f fascism and i really want to try fascism government.

Q3: any one can help me

 

[No.Dice]

Originally posted by redhulkz
Q1: i heard from players they prefer Monarchy to Communism
is monarchy really superior to commumism
IMO, communism is best war government, even IA converts to communism during a long war.

While communism will make your far flung cities productive, it does so at great cost to your core cities, where production is most important. A well managed monarchy with a forbidden palace will outproduce communism in nearly all situations.

You shouldn't put too much weight on what the AI does, its really pretty terrible at managing its empires. In fact a couple of patches ago, a popular strategy was to go to war with a far off AI, in a representative type government. After its citizens succumbed to war weariness the AI would switch to communism, taking a large gpt, science, and production hit. Twenty turns down the road the AI would eventually pop rush all of its cities to oblivion and would for all practical purposes, basically eliminate itself from the game. Though this was partly due to a bug.

Republic is the best government. Its quite easy to fight multiple wars that span centuries as a Republic, where your cities would be rioting left and right if you were a democracy. Better income than monarchy/communism, less war weariness than democracy.

 

[Tassadar]

Originally posted by No.Dice


While communism will make your far flung cities productive, it does so at great cost to your core cities, where production is most important. A well managed monarchy with a forbidden palace will outproduce communism in nearly all situations.

You shouldn't put too much weight on what the AI does, its really pretty terrible at managing its empires. In fact a couple of patches ago, a popular strategy was to go to war with a far off AI, in a representative type government. After its citizens succumbed to war weariness the AI would switch to communism, taking a large gpt, science, and production hit. Twenty turns down the road the AI would eventually pop rush all of its cities to oblivion and would for all practical purposes, basically eliminate itself from the game. Though this was partly due to a bug.

Republic is the best government. Its quite easy to fight multiple wars that span centuries as a Republic, where your cities would be rioting left and right if you were a democracy. Better income than monarchy/communism, less war weariness than democracy.

Your core city doesnt suffer that much, if you have courthouse and police station in every city, you lost only a few shield per city every where on the map.

Did you ever try to declare war as a republic, sooner or later you will have to increase lux slider way up to avoid rioting after several turn, if a.i. declare war on you when you are ready to fight then its the best one, but if you want to declare war without suffering from war weariness then monarchy in old and medieval era is very good, but in the end of industrial time or modern era i prefer comunist. ( i have to tell you, i dont use infinite city sprawl, i have a little more than # optimum city and all metropolis).

 

[edawstwin]

Originally posted by Jeff Yu
so if you're playing as a communist, you should build only the improvements you need (temple/library, barracks, courthouse, police station, possibly marketplace).

My response really isn't related to Communism, but I had to respond the quote above. No one should put Marketplaces in the "possibly" category. This is a MUST for each city producing more than a few gold per turn (in any government type). It pays for itself many times over, AND gives lux bonuses if you have more than two luxuries. It is, in my opinion, the best-for-its-cost Improvement in the whole game.

 

[cromagnon]

Perhaps in a future implementation of the game, they can adjust Communism to make it more useful. For example, it would not be unrealistic for workers in Communism to have a 150-200% efficiency. After all, the USSR symbol was related to workers.

When Communism "shares corruption between cities," does that mean that it averages all the corruption in the empire and gives each city the mean, or does it give a fixed percentage corruption? While the former may be more realistic, it does cripple the entire civilization, and maybe reducing corruption across the board would make Communism more realistic.

Finally, I don't care a whole lot for the "better spy ability" of Communism. With the a) reduced commercial income and b) still-rampant corruption, you never have enough money to do anything with it anyway.

I used Communism a lot in Civ II; it was a Monarchy with better police, support, and corruption. Now, it's close to worthless, based on the responses and polls I've seen here. Essentially, Democracy is way too powerful compared to the other forms of government, and is thus heavily favored.

Firaxis: Make Communism a more worthwhile option!!

 

[Tassadar]

Did you ever had 18 city size 12 in industrial time producing a panzer in 2 turn each, and waging war as you wish. If no then dont say commi is worthless.

 

[DaveMcW]

Commie is worthless

 

[Yndy]

I think Communism can be useful in some situations and after you re-arrange your cities. If it is used for only a short time it only allows better espionage.