On expansion - avoid the middle

[Rod]

I have to disagree.

In my point of view a middle position means early contacts and early trades with all your surroundings neighbours. If you can even find a religion , it will spread quite fast and if not, you will be most likely easily adopt a foreign one. Nothing is more boosting your development then to have a religion at 2000 BC or even earlier.

Civilizations stucked up in the corners are the ones that get underdeveloped and from a point of time you simply can not brigde the gap anymore, even as a human player with much more creativity, than your mechanical friends.

But I have to be honest, my experiences with Civ IV so far are only Prince-Level and I like Quick-Game Island Maps with Arid or Cold Climate, High Sea Level and 18 other Civs, but not Pangea.

So of course this rough terrain and the huge number of opponents is giving me the base for my favorite challenge : Outbuilding and outscoring the opponent and winning the Space Race or Cultural Race- that is very tough under those conditions, as you have maximum 2 good cities (not three ! ) in this case (in a peaceful way) and it is already difficult to make at least 6 cities productive enough to achieve Oxford University, Wall Street and Hermitage (the most important National Wonders for this wins).

Besides on such a tough world you need to 'cooperate' with some of your opponents in researching, as it is simply impossible to get all the necessary research points within the turn limit on your own. (it is really a long way to Future Tech )

I had very different games so far, but that made me learn all the elements of Civ IV.
According to your own position on the map and especially Your resources from the start you really have to choose very different tools.

Great Persons become very important, once I could just catch up with the crowd again when a great scientist at the right time gave me Philosophy, which was unknown to the most of my opponents at those time.
In some games I really have extensivly to take the whip and use Slavery to build all this banks, universities and temples.
In other games only the combination of mercantilism and representation enabled me to win.
In the next case only free speech and suffrage could push me over the line, as my terrain was only good for towns, towns and towns.
I even remember one game, when I was 'fake-building' World Wonders just because i really needed money to support my technological development. (that means I started wonders and I knew (and hoped) that I would not finish them )
And last but not least once only the pure raiding of my neighbours towns and villages (not conquering, just raiding) enabled me to lead my Mongol Keshiks to technical superioty.

But unregarding of whatever your position is, the middle of the world is the best space to be for you .. even if not for your opponents.

 

[maltz]

Maybe we are talking about different playing styles. Maybe I should modify my topic to:

"On expansionists' expansion: avoid the center"

(Starting in the middle)... early contacts and early trades with all your surroundings neighbours.

Trades are stablished by rivers, coasts and roads, usually before 2000BCs. You will get the foreign trades as long as you have some connections. From my experience even if I start in the most distant tip of a Pangea, I can trade with Civs from the other tip very early. In fact, the cetner positions are usually deprived of coasts, so you would trade less especailly if you own the Great Lighthouse.

If you can even find a religion , it will spread quite fast and if not, you will be most likely easily adopt a foreign one. Nothing is more boosting your development then to have a religion at 2000 BC or even earlier.

In higher difficulties, it is hard to found a religion for yourself, and it is usually merely a bonus to take over a holy city if it lies in your expansion path. Religions can spread far away through coasts, too. So position does not really matter.

Civilizations stucked up in the corners are the ones that get underdeveloped...

Now I can see why you think the corner sucks. You don't chop axeman very much, do you? In every Deity game, I have to bring down at least 2 opponents close to me in order to survive. Therefore, I never have to worry about "no space to grow", but "too much space to grow and my # of city upkeep kills".

Now my topic mainly aims at the next problem. Once you have enough (or too much) space to grow -- then how are you going to keep it and keep expanding? Then, on a corner you are better off, because you don't have to have a large garrison on another end, and you don't have to deal with so many potential enemies at once.