Optimal Starting Locations

[troc]

In your opinion, what is the optimal starting location for each civ?

Examples:
-Carthage: Coastal start with multiple water based resources for the harbor and pantheon belief (god of the sea) production bonus.

-Egypt: A start that includes marble - effectively stacking with Egypt's UA - as one of your luxury resources

Huns: Plains start with access to multiple pasture based resources for the production bonus.

 

[smallfish]

Persia:

Spoiler :

 

[troc]

Persia:

Spoiler :

Why is that optimal for Persia and what map is that??

 

[smallfish]

Why is that optimal for Persia and what map is that??

This start could fit any other civ really... but with the river hills, it opens up a lot of opportunities for the cap to quickly punch out Immortals to take out some neighbor. A Persian Honor start or Liberty Representation Rush would work extremely well here

And this is on Hemispheres

 

[Verified_Confection_Being]

This start could fit any other civ really... but with the river hills, it opens up a lot of opportunities for the cap to quickly punch out Immortals to take out some neighbor. A Persian Honor start or Liberty Representation Rush would work extremely well here

And this is on Hemispheres

But your second luxury resource can't be reached until after you have a coastal city.

My contribution is anything with salt for anyone. If you have salt and/or gold or silver you're in dreamland. I had a salt/gold start with the Maya on a hotseat game. By 0BC i had quadruple each of their science and even more culture. I won the game as soon as i loaded up 1st turn.

 

[smallfish]

But your second luxury resource can't be reached until after you have a coastal city.

That's where your neighbor comes in

 

[Verified_Confection_Being]

That's where your neighbor comes in

Touche.

Quite nice for anyone with an early combat bonus then. Persia and greece come to mind.

 

[ahawk]

My contribution is anything with salt for anyone.

Salt is an awfully imbalanced luxury. Sometimes, it makes an Emperor game feel like Immortal (when an enemy AI has a bunch of salt). Other times, Immortal feels like Prince (when I have a lot of salt). The only other luxuries that have such a big impact are Gems (Gems on a hill/river tile is a ton of gold) and Marble (wonder production bonus affects my Emperor games, and games below that; when I play Immortal, and the odd times I go for Deity, the wonder production bonus is not so impacting).

The other really great start is when I have a bunch of whale or crab tiles. Throw a harbor on it, along with the belief for +1 per fishing boat, and for good measure the Colossus (if possible, depending on difficulty), and watch that city blossom.

 

[Jelster]

I had a really strange start a couple of games ago. Playing as France, I founded my capital 2 tiles from Uruhu, my second city just a few tiles to the west next to Mt Sinai, and I had 12 lots of wine in 3 cities. As you can imagine, the faith built on that lot (taking monasteries) was huge.

Most Civ leaders have good taste too, they all wanted to buy my wine

I can't help but think how good it would have been playing as Spain.

 

[sufficiency]

In general, if your starting point has a lot of cows, wheat, dear, stones, ***SALT***, horses, by a river, by a mountain, it's a strong start.

Alternatively, a desert start with some oasis and hills is also fairly good... provided you are the only one starting on desert (i.e. no one else takes desert folklore and petra).

Being close to several aggressive AIs makes the game a lot harder. But what I feel is the HARDEST is to be sandwiched by one aggressive AI (e.g. Monty, Alex, Genghis, Attila) and one expansive AI (e.g. Washington, Napoleon, Hiawatha). I've encountered this scenario several times and it feels hopeless as the expansive AI grows like crazy but I can't punish him because Attila has been parking his rams in front of my capital for 30 turns.

I am probably the only one who thinks like this, but I dislike settling on hills because I like to be able to build wind mills (obvious exception: Austria). I feel that wind mills are pretty broken and worth sacrificing one hammer in the early game for.

EDIT: I feel that what I had here http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=488410 was a pretty good start. I had 4 salts near my capital, not too close to any of the AIs, and lots of wheat around me (although not close enough to the capital) for some easy expansions. It would be even BETTER if the stone was a bit closer and not on tundra.

​

Salt is an awfully imbalanced luxury. Sometimes, it makes an Emperor game feel like Immortal (when an enemy AI has a bunch of salt). Other times, Immortal feels like Prince (when I have a lot of salt). The only other luxuries that have such a big impact are Gems (Gems on a hill/river tile is a ton of gold) and Marble (wonder production bonus affects my Emperor games, and games below that; when I play Immortal, and the odd times I go for Deity, the wonder production bonus is not so impacting).

The other really great start is when I have a bunch of whale or crab tiles. Throw a harbor on it, along with the belief for +1 per fishing boat, and for good measure the Colossus (if possible, depending on difficulty), and watch that city blossom.

On Pangaea it is an absolute nightmare though. I usually don't reroll maps, but one of the conditions which will always cause me to reroll is when I get a coastal start and there are two different luxuries in the ocean. I feel that this is borderline unplayable on Pangaea unless I am playing Carthage (it's a struggle even with Carthage).

 

[joncnunn]

Best start as anybody on regular sized map:
Legendary resources (especially Salt) + river + Mountain + coastal.
Some civs also prefer water maps to ensure all other cities coastal. (Carthage)

The rest of the map settings actually is more to do with do you want to dominate by land or do you want to either dominate by sea or do you want a peaceful game than the civ itself.

Sea based luxuries are great with G&K as everyone; but it takes time to set up, so forget about early wonders. In fact on that sort of setup I often have one city NC (regular library); the first settler having been bought shortly before that completes and founds the second city the turn after NC completes.

Many players also like their capital to be on a hill; I don't as most civs* since it kills the Windmill, slowing down the GEs later on. (I like to fill not only all scientist slots but also all the engineer slots as well.)
* Austria's UB can be built on a hill unlike base building, so for them I do want to be on the hill as well.

 

[comatosedragon]

A hilltop riverside start with salt is the best start for any civ, IMHO.

 

[koschmander]

This, Petra and Desert folklore.
I can imagine this would be great start for any civ, but the mountain guarantees your science output and as Babylon you just must go for science.

E: Or how can I show this picture..

E2: MAybe now?

E3: Forgot the reasoning.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Hm, may I ask why is Salt overpowered?

 

[Aaron90495]

Hm, may I ask why is Salt overpowered?

Because it provides food, production, and gold (if I'm not mistaken). I don't think any other luxuries even provide just food and production. With Salt, you can get great food and production from just one tile.

 

[BBMorti]

River hill with salt and marble is my preferred start. Anything else, like wheat, mountain, horses or desert hills is just various forms of dessert on the side

 

[SnowKomodo]

In a perfect world? A hill (The windmill is great, but I'm more likely to struggle early on than later so I need that early production boost) by the river by a single mountain (any more mountains is taking away tiles I could be improving) with Polders on flood plains and Petra and Desert Folklore on the desert tiles. Add to that a marble resource and a gold/silver resource (I love me my Mints) and I'm off to the races

 

[sufficiency]

Hm, may I ask why is Salt overpowered?

Improving salt gives food and hammer; salt gives food and hammer by itself. Usually improved salt is 3 food, 2 hammer, and 1 gold. That's 8 points in a single tile.

Generally, as far as luxuries go, Salt > mining-based luxury on grass > marble on grass > calender-based lux = other mining-based-lux > trapping-based lux

 

[Xahz]

Improving salt gives food and hammer; salt gives food and hammer by itself. Usually improved salt is 3 food, 2 hammer, and 1 gold. That's 8 points in a single tile.

Generally, as far as luxuries go, Salt > mining-based luxury on grass > marble on grass > calender-based lux = other mining-based-lux > trapping-based lux

What a ridiculous ranking. You didn't even include sea resources. ALL luxuries give +2 tile yield before improvement, with the exception of Gems, which is 3.

Also, Salt gives food and gold, not food and hammer; no luxuries give hammers. It only gives hammers once you build a mine, unless you're on a plains tile (it can also be found on tundra and desert). It's not an 8 yield tile unless you're on a river *and* have chemistry researched.

Gems give 1 extra
Gold and Silver give 2 extra with Mint, and 1 / with pantheon
Wine and Incense give 1 / with pantheon, and 1 / with Monasteries
Truffles, Ivory, and Furs give +1 with pantheon, +1 with Longhouse
Whales, Pearls, and Crab give +1 with pantheon, +1 with Colossus, +1 with Lighthouse, +1 with Harbor, and +1 / with Seaport.

*Generally* the best luxury is completely dependent on what civ you are, what map you're playing, where your start is, and what beliefs you get. People like food luxuries because you can work them right off the bat and hate sea luxuries because they're difficult to improve. Salt on plains gives a good split between resources and, for some reason, gets +2 upon improvement, but other luxuries can be just as effective in the right circumstances.

 

[Smokeybear]

Why is that optimal for Persia and what map is that??

I would call that an average start for any civ, and not really even a particularly good one.