Whenever i read someone mentioning organized they usually say something along the lines of having more cities at less cost. Does organized actually reduce the cost of city maintanence at all? From what i can tell, It only reduces the civic upkeep by half (-50% is half but +50% is not double) like it says and not city upkeep.
Organized, Civic only?
- Thread starter syneris
- Start date
You are correct, it only reduces Civic upkeep. More cities and higher population increase the cost for Civics, which translates to more cities at less cost. The money you save is pretty minor though, the real advantage is the half-priced courthouses and lighthouses.
MrCynical
Deity
Organized sort of decreases city maintenance by making courthouses twice as fast to build, but it is probably the weakest trait. The civic cost is rarely even 2% of my total budget, so it a saving there is utterly trivial. Courthouses are a bit more useful, but they aren't all that expensive to build to start with. Half price lighthouses can also sometimes be useful.
Large empires suffer from greater civic upkeeps which get halved by organized
also the half courthouse cost can be really helpfull if you are playing on a huge map as you then need 8 courthouses before you can build a forbidden palace, if you dont have organized it will take twice as long to build that fatal 8th courthouse, which can at times be a very very long time.
also the half courthouse cost can be really helpfull if you are playing on a huge map as you then need 8 courthouses before you can build a forbidden palace, if you dont have organized it will take twice as long to build that fatal 8th courthouse, which can at times be a very very long time.
Roland Ehnström
Prince
The Organized trait also gets more useful the more expensive civics you use. For a peaceful game, where you'll mainly be using low-cost civics like Free Speech, it's not of much use. But in a game where you tend to use a lot of Hereditary Rule, Vassalage and Theocracy, the Organized trait suddenly becomes VERY useful.
-- Roland
-- Roland
The trait is usefull if you want to conquer a lot of cities without having to wait every time untill all your cottages have matured into villages or town. The idea is that, when put against financial, an orginized leader can have production powerhouses instead of commercial cities and still not be in the red.
I usually play as japan when I'm in the mood for a conquer/domination game, and I can have a huge empire with a lot of troops, with the most expensive civics (wich give the best units) and still be able to keep up in research. I'd never be able to do that without organized. Maybe financial, but I'd be at the mercy of an ennemy destroying my cottages. Such empires are too big to have sentinels everywhere.
I usually play as japan when I'm in the mood for a conquer/domination game, and I can have a huge empire with a lot of troops, with the most expensive civics (wich give the best units) and still be able to keep up in research. I'd never be able to do that without organized. Maybe financial, but I'd be at the mercy of an ennemy destroying my cottages. Such empires are too big to have sentinels everywhere.
Hoplosternum
Warlord
Hmmm,
It still seems a little weak. How often will it exceed the value of Financial even with a large Empire and expensive Civics? Financial hits the bottom line and so can be multiplied by Markets, Banks, Libraries unlike Organised as well as providing a lot more in numbers terms.
Of course it does affect just gold rather than commerce (where Financials bonus may get 'spent' on extra beakers instead....) But even so if it were a choice - which it isn't - who would ever pick it?
Courthouses are useful and pricey, but not really anymore than Banks so thats a bit of a wash.
I wonder whether they will tweak it at all? I doubt they will apply it to the city number costs as that would favour conquest and city spamming too much and it already is given to some of the chief warlike powers - Rome and Japan. But they could allow it to reduce distance modifiers maybe? It's given to powers who historically would have had distance issues - China, US, Rome and Japan (in their early 20th Century phase
)
It still seems a little weak. How often will it exceed the value of Financial even with a large Empire and expensive Civics? Financial hits the bottom line and so can be multiplied by Markets, Banks, Libraries unlike Organised as well as providing a lot more in numbers terms.
Of course it does affect just gold rather than commerce (where Financials bonus may get 'spent' on extra beakers instead....) But even so if it were a choice - which it isn't - who would ever pick it?
Courthouses are useful and pricey, but not really anymore than Banks so thats a bit of a wash.
I wonder whether they will tweak it at all? I doubt they will apply it to the city number costs as that would favour conquest and city spamming too much and it already is given to some of the chief warlike powers - Rome and Japan. But they could allow it to reduce distance modifiers maybe? It's given to powers who historically would have had distance issues - China, US, Rome and Japan (in their early 20th Century phase
)MrCynical
Deity
It will never exceed, or even get to half the value of financial no matter how big your empire gets or if you use the most expensive civics. The effects of organized act on gold (and fairly low amounts of it since the civic budget rarely reaches 3 figures). The effects of financial are larger to start with and give commerce which has numerous multipliers acting on it. The main problem I have with organized is that it seems to be designed to give the same benefit as financial (lots of extra money) but is far less efficient at doing so.
I love organized, honestly. It's definitely an acquired taste though. Easiest way to acquire the taste is have a dozen or two war chariots/immortals/conqs/cossacks/panzers/etc tsunami through your country and wipe your towns out.
Organized is raid-proof and it lets you grab that really valuable but really distant city location. Great trait for early conquering as well. Organized = land, Financial = $.
Organized is raid-proof and it lets you grab that really valuable but really distant city location. Great trait for early conquering as well. Organized = land, Financial = $.
MrCynical
Deity
It's true that financial can take a pounding if you are badly pillaged. But you get the bouns immediately on riverside cottages, and it doesn't take long to get hamlets, which always give the bonus. Sea tiles also get the financial bonus, and these can't be pillaged. Even if you've had all your improvements destroyed (generally bad news) then financial will probably still be ahead of organized after it's put through the commerce multipliers.
Not sure what you mean about helping grab a really distant location. Do you mean the faster courthouse? I admit that could be some use then (and the faster lighthouse if it's coastal).
Not sure what you mean about helping grab a really distant location. Do you mean the faster courthouse? I admit that could be some use then (and the faster lighthouse if it's coastal).
The big difference comes when you stop building cottages and starting adding production to your cities. You can coat your land with Cottages to get +1 commerce/tile in financial. Lets say though that you would like to build things near the end of the game when there are lots of tile improvements that add production which is key to military based victories. You would now be earning maybe 1-2 commerce/CITY due to a few resources.
This is where organized kicks in because it is not cottage dependant.
That being said I do find financial a lot easier to play as, but I am finding organised is more suited to war based victory conditions.
This is where organized kicks in because it is not cottage dependant.
That being said I do find financial a lot easier to play as, but I am finding organised is more suited to war based victory conditions.
MrCynical said:
Yeah faster courthouse is what I meant. Not really useful for the initial land grab, but I love its effects on conquest recovery. Nearly every loss I've had has come from me being too aggressive and end up conquering a civ or two and then be stuck at <60% research and get hopelessly behind around industrial/modern era.
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