OSG5 - Paranoid Communists

ToddMarshall

Maniac - Stellar Wingman
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Messages
1,070
Location
Quincy, Illinois
Well, with Civ IV finally out you'd think everyone would be too busy playing that to do anything else right? Well, aparently not ;) . Yeah, those crazy people from Realms Beyond are back with yet annother MOO1 Succession Game. This time we will be the Darloks on Hard with, umm, a few twists.

The Paranoid Communists
------------------------
We're the lone red communist society surrounded by a pack of imperialist dogs! We shall not allow our culture to be contaminated by contact with the enemy. Instead we will show them the merits of our glorious system and promote the inevitable rise of the working class throughout the galaxy!

Medium
Hard
Darloks
Red
4 opponents

Variant Rules (marked with C or P to denote Communist or Paranoia flavour):
C1: Planetary Reserve Tax Slider set to maximum for the entire game.
C2: Espionage must only spread propaganda (forment revolts) unless in Final War.
C3: Must spend at least 1.2% on propaganda per civ we have contact with.
P4: No initiating diplomacy with AI. No accepting trade agreements or alliances.
P5: No unarmed ships. We can keep the colony ship and 2 scouts we start with, but only until we've scouted everywhere within 6 parsects of the first 2 planets, then they have to be scraped. Planets must spend 4% or more on DEF. No scrapping bases.
P6: May not invade planets. Nuke from orbit, it's the only way to be sure!

Roster:

Maniac
Catwalk
Dathon
Zed
Prudence Moon
Captain Bob - not confirmed yet
d0om

First 3 players play 20 turns each. After that, its 10.

Its 24 hours to post you got it, then 48 hours to play. I won't be super strict on this, but please try to comply :)

The roster is allready overstuffed, so it's closed. If anyone is interested in playing in a future game, let us know :)

Here is a look at our starting position and our opponents.



Well, It could have been worse. No Psilons or Humans. On the other Hand Silicoids, Klackons and Meklars is no rose garden. I've allready played the first 20 turns and I am in the process of writing up the report. That and the save should be up later tonite. I'm looking forward to playing with you guys. :)

- Maniac
 
Pregame analysis:

This could turn out to be the most difficult varient I've ever played, even though its only on Hard.

The planetary tax is a REAL killer to your econ, especially in the early expansion phase. Solution... there isn't one! Well, there somewhat is. I plan to feed the reserves to the home planet every turn until it maxes factories and startscolony ships! We need to try to plant our flag on at least half a dozen planets to have a chance I'd suspect

Diplomacy is a real headache. Being that we're the Darloks, everyone starts out disliking us, which usually means an early war. Solution... there isn't one! Seriously. The things that improve relations normally are 1) Trade, 2) Tribute, 3) NAP's/Alliances, 4) Enemy of my Enemy. One and Two are totally off the table, four isn't likely in the early game, and three usually requires four, though not allways. An early war may be an unavoidable reality. EEK!

Furthermore, the Darloks special advantage is spying/anti spying, and we've crippled that by taking tech thefts off thetable!

Now, scroll up and look at that teaser map. Just LOOK at all those Yellow stars right smack in the middle of the universe! There are almost ceartain to be 2 AI's there, likely 3, and possibly even all 4 EEK! . I'm fairly sure there won't be an AI in the southeast, though it's not impossible for there to be one in the corner. Actually, I'm quite hopeful that there isn't an AI at the yellows in the southwest, which might give us time to grab that direction. I REALLY hope we can get a rich or artifacts planet (or both!) to help counter our stunted growth curve.

The other nasty feature is we drew a lot of dead, open space near the homeworld :( I decided if the start was too harsh, I'd tank it and reroll for at least an "average" start.

There are 2 planets within 3 parsects of the homeworld. Actually, one is only TWO parsects away. The Yellow star to the east might look like is in range, but it's aparently 3.01 parsects out....

With only the 2 scouts, and with wanting to get them done with their mission asap so we can scrap em, I decide to send them out in a wheel pattern. One will initially go to the 2 parsect red, one to the 4 parsect yellow. The Colship will go to the 3 parsect red. If the scout has located a much better planet at the 2 parsect star, we can redirect the colship. With that in
mind...

The Beginning

2300 - Emperor Marshall the Far too Trusting came to power just in time to preside over the early days of the glorious Darlok Space Program.

Secure in the knowleged that there was no other intellegent life in the galaxy, the great Darlok society had constructed a great Colony Ship, hopefully the first of many, to spread the Darlok Race to other planets throughout the galaxy. Though some "paranoid individuals", notably the DRA, dissagreed, Emperor Marshall insisted that there was no need to arm the ship. After all, there was NO OTHER INTELLEGENT LIFE

Darlok scientists, looking out on the universe from the great Copernicus' Observatory, believed that the planet of Quayal just 3 parsects to the west, was a planet much like much like their homeworld of Moscow, and would be suitable for colonization. Though there was a planet nearer to Moscow, it wasn't expected to be habitable.

Because it was difficult, if not impossible, to accurately evaluate the habitablity of planets farther out than 3 parsects,there were also 2 scout ships created to look for other planets for the race to expand to in the future.

In this great year, all 3 ships set forth on their journeys. Manifest Destiny was at hand!


As per varient rules, I set one click at Moscow to base bulding... keep an eye on this. The game likes to squeeze out spending on it. It's a bit of micromanagment I hadn't considered =/. I also crank up the planetary tax to max. This REALLY forces us to spend a ton on cleanup. Like 2/3 of our econ! Colship heads to the 3 parsect red. The scouts to the 2 parsect red and to the 4 parsect yellow.

2301 - I feed the 5BC from the reserves back into the planet. Getting as many factories built as fast as possible fules the curve exponentially, so I figure its the only way to go. Now we only need half our econ for cleanup :lol:

2302 - See, our scientists are never wrong. I told you that planet was a worthless rock. We shouldn't even have bothered to scout it

Our scout finds size 15 toxic Xudax. Yuck. It moves off to scout the red star to the south. Reserves fed (5BC).

2303 - There was much cellebrating throughout Moscow as the Darlok colony ship arrived at Quayal and found the expected large habitable planet. Emperor Marshall was proclaimed a great world hero. "Now we shall use our great utopian profit sharing to spead to the farthest reaches of the galaxy." Marshall proclaimed. "Quayal is but the first of many planets we shall one day clonize. Today, 14 million hand picked colonists have begun their 3 day jounrey to their new home. Celebrate, my people, celebrate!" In general, there was much hand shaking and kissing of babies (etc.)

Its a RED letter day! (pun intended). Our colony ship arrives at Size 90 Terran Quayal. Fourteen million Darloks decided to migrate. Feed 6 more BC to Moscow.

2304 - A scout arrives at the yellow, finds size 35 Barren Escalon.. Not a planet I'd have hand picked for the back yard! I feed 6 more BC to Moscow. I send 3 more million to Quayal. Scout heads NE to check out the blue star.

2305 - I feed 6 more BC to Moscow, and send 4 million more to Quayal. :sleep:

2306 - "See?" gloated Emperor Marshall "We have found yet annother planet that we shall one day inhabit! My scientists are never wrong!"

The south/west scout finds size 55 Steppe Rotan at the 4 parsects red to the south of Q-town. I feed Moscow reserves (6BC),send 2 more million to Q-town, and send the Scout west to the 6 parsects blue.

2307 - I send 1 final million to Q-town, and feed Moscow 7BC.

2308 - Feed Moscow 8BC

2309 - Eastern scout finds size 40 Barren Drakka. It heads NW to the white 6 parsects north of Moscow. I feed 9BC to Moscow :sleep:

2310 - Feed 10 BC to Moscow :sleep: . Halfway home!

2311 - Emperor Marshall, the far too shameless, indulges in more self promotion when the south/west scout finds that that Guradas is annother place where the darlok race can look forward to inhabiting in the coming years. His autobiography hits #1. "Marshall is no Maniac: Todd. The man, the myth, the legend."

The southwest scout finds size 50 Desert Guradas at the blue star. It heads off for the red star just west of Q-town. I feed 11 more BC to Moscow.

2312 - I feed 12 BC to Moscow. :sleep:

2313 - I feed 13 BC to Moscow. :sleep:

2314 - I feed 14 BC to Moscow. :sleep:

2315 - GNN cites sources inside the Kremiln as saing that Emperor Marshall is displeased that so many of the planets near Moscow seem to be small and uninhabitable. Officially, however, the emperor says that such was only to be expected.

The white north of the homeworld is a size 45 Dead. The scout heads off to explore the green just to the west. I feed Moscow 15BC.

2316 - Emperor Marshall lashed out at his doubiters today when one of the scout ships arrived at the planet west of Quayal, named Paladia, and found it to be a large, mostly ocean covered planet. "How many times have I told you that our scientists are allwas correct? There are bound to be many, many more planets just like this one. We have the ability to reach and colonize this planet within 15-20 years if we REALLY wanted to, but for now there is no need to be so wasteful of resources. In time, colonization of it will be much easier. We shall bide our time.

The red is a size 70 ocean. The scout heads west to the red at the edge of western range. I feed Moscow 17BC

2317 - Feed Moscow 17BC :sleep:

2318 - Emperor Marshall gloats some more when one of the scouts finds a small habitable planet right in the middle of the universe. He predicts that this planet will one day be the stepping stone to colonize the far corners of the universe.

Meanwhile, the militant faction known as the Darlok Republican Army secretly begins constuction of an armed ship called the Scorpion to watch over the planet. The DRA, a "paranoid", faction that believes that their may be other life in the galaxy, would like to keep an eye on the planet.


We can now make armed LR Laser ships in 1 turn, So I whip up a design called Scorpion to go watch the habitables. Kind of armed scout denial. I start cranking one at moscow. The scout heads for the Yellow NW of Quayal. This will be its final stop before scrapage.

2319 - Emperor Marshall literally freaked out today when one of the scouts found a terran planet even larger than Moscow at extreme western scouting range. He said something to the effect of "This will make a great FP site someday." Scholars are still trying to interpret the meaning of this remark.

Wowzers!! The red at the end of the chain is a size 105 Terran!! I know where the 2nd Scorpion is going! I send the first one

to watch the planet in the middle of the uni. I send the scout to the green star to the north it's current location, which will be its final stop. To get the years to come out even, I go one more (there is no sense handing off the turn BEFORE an election later in the game....) I feed 19BC to Moscow.

2320 - Feeling that he'd accomplished more than anyone in the history of the Darlok race, and believing that history would remember him as the greatest Darlok ruler, Emperor Marshall steped down and handed over the throne to his successor. "What more could I have accomplished?? Abolutely eveyone will allways know about the Maniac"

All I did was click next turn.

The next leader can decide where to send our new scorp. I highly reccomend the large jungle planet.

I'm surprised no one was living at that small steppe planet... could the AI all be off in a corner????

I'd make a scorp for each of the threatened habitables, then maybe try out facts and colonize away if we say isolated.

The scouts are both en route to their final stop, so you can scrap them in 3-4 turns.

Anyway, here is a look at what we've found so far



And the save is here [url]http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/OSG5_2320.zip[/URL]
 
Glad to see you guys are still going. As soon as I can kick my Civ4 addiction, I will read the whole thread.
 
Checking in... looks like we've got a decent start. Nabbing that jungle would be nice, but given the proximity of the yellows around it and the extended time it's going to take to research a range tech, might be a pipe dream. Good luck Catwalk!
 
I'll start playing now, but I'm giving a concert with my choir in 3 hours. Maybe I'll be able to finish this when I get home around midnight, otherwise I'll do it first thing in the morning (Danish time).
 
Still playing, I hope to post the report in a few hours. I suppose it's WAY too late to suggest rules changes now, but I can't help myself: How about allowing invasions on planets that are in a state of rebellion? :ninja:
 
It is way too late, so normally I'd say no. :)

However, it is also appropriate for the communist part of the theme, and it's not like we've started going on the offensive just yet. Assisting the rise of the working class via military intervention sounds like something you might have expected to hear in the days of the formation of the USSR. And perhaps we should have some kind of reward for causing a planet to go into rebellion. On the other hand, we are paranoid... would our people really want to live side by side even with communists of another race?

Opinions?
 
Because of how MOO handles invasions, we won't be living side by side with them :ar15:

The report is coming along nicely, I remembered to get a LOT of pictures. How many should I use?
 
Depends on what "paranoid" means. If it means xenophobia, then no, we should never invade under any circumstances to avoid contact with the filthy aliens :nuke:

However, if we are paranoid about alien culture/government influences, then I would say we should invade, to take the opportunity to convert a planet in turmoil to the only correct way of being :borg:

I have a slight leaning towards interpretation #1, but only a slight one. Not a big issue either way to me, as I don't see the opportunity happening all that often.

Another quick rules clarification: I'm assuming that all avenues of espionage are available after Final War has been declared? The C2 rule seems (to me at least) to be written to allow that. This would also mean that C3 would change to "Must spend at least 1.2% on spying per race while in Final War" Yes?

dathon
 
[Sorry, I gave up on the pictures]

After a long and succesful reign by Emperor Marshal, unassuming bureaucrat Comrade Catwalk is called upon to serve the Empire. Upon assessing the information available, the following plan is made:

1) Investigate our research options as soon as the scouts are done exploring the nearby systems
2) Keep the DRA happy by sending Scorpions to all outlying systems of interest
3) Focus heavily on industrial development

Turn 2320:

- Sent Scorpion to Gienah

Turn 2321:

- Sent new Scorpion to unexplored NW Yellow star
- Delays next Scorpion to first see if the green is worth defending

Turn 2322:

- Omicron: Barren 65 Rich, definitely worth defending, another Scorpion ordered. Getting a Rich planet is top priority so we can make our reserves useful.



Turn 2323:

- Proxima: Arid 65, also worth defending
- New Scorpion sent to Proxima, the one already on the way there will be redirected to Omicron
- 2 RP invested in each of Planetology and Propulsion
- Both scouts scrapped

Turn 2324:

- Neither Barren nor cleanup teach available, so IT+10 it is. Both range techs available, Hydrogen fuel cells selected as many systems are in the 4 parsec range
- Keeps a 50/50 distribution and pumps 40 RP in each field

Turn 2325:

- Beats off a Meklar scout at Bootis
- Starts slow research to take max advantage of the tech interest, 3 points in each. Imperial records show that conventional wisdom about tech interest is incorrect. Rather than doubling all investments below 15% of the current investment, all investments below 7.5% are tripled. Keeping this in mind, Comrade Catwalk endeavors to increase research spenditure by 22.5% every year to triple all investments.

Turn 2326:

- News report that we are first in population, the other races must have been stunted. Final war is looming... [Order: Darlok, Meklar, Silicoid, Klackon, Sakkra]
- 49 points researched in each field, another 3 invested

Turn 2327:

- Met Meklar at Proxima, still only a scout
- 58 points, 4 invested
- Sends Proxima Scorpion to Omicron immediately even though there will be a gap of one turn until the next Scorpion arrives

Turn 2328:

- 70 points, 5 invested

Turn 2329:

- Silicoids have 6 systems!
- 85 points, 6 invested
- Scorpion arrives safely at Gienah, no enemies spotted
- New Scorpion ordered at Nazin, it will be sent to defend Drakka as I suspect this is where the Silicoids have been expanding. On the other hand, if they have 6 systems already in this area then Drakka is likely to be one of them.

Turn 2330:

- Scorpion arrives safely at Omicron
- Scorpion sent to Drakka
- 103 RP, 7BC invested

Turn 2331:

- Meklar scout encountered at Gienah, their homeworld is probably in the north cluster
- 124 RP, 9BC invested

Turn 2332:

- 151 RP, 12BC invested. Planetology at 6%

Turn 2333:

- IT+10 hits at 6%! Choices are IT+20, Dead colonization and Death Spores. Dead colonization picked as there are many Barren and a Dead planet nearby.
- With Controll Dead Environment (costs 2830RP), our colony ships will drop from 546BC to 423BC and our production will rise by 0.21BC / colonist. with full population on both planets that's +44BC per turn. With 4 colony ships we will be saving 492BC. With an initial investment of 229BC it will take 13 turns to reach a 3% chance of breakthrough, costing a total of 1200BC. Including the 492BC saved, this is a very good investment, considering that we won't be able to make our factories more effective with efficient cleanup tech in the near future. It will delay early expansion and growth, but will let us claim Omicron faster.
- 187 RP in Propulsion, 14BC invested in Propulsion and 221BC in Planetology

2334:

- 16BC invested in each of Propulsion and Planetology

2335:

- 19BC invested, Hydrogen at 1%

2336:

- 25BC invested, Hydrogen at 6%
- Met Klackons at Drakka, beat off a scout

2337:

- 30BC invested, Hydrogen at 13%
- Start building another Scorpion at Quayal

2338:

- 40BC invested in Planetology, keeps Hydrogen at 14%

2339:

- Hydrogen hits, choices are Deuterium and Nuclear Engines. I go for Deuterium in order to prepare for massive expansion, considering how little action I've seen from our enemies I do not believe Nuclear Engines will be necessary in the near future.
- 49 in Planetology
- I risk a venture to the White star north of Omicron 2 parsecs away
- Eastern Scorpion sent to the Yellow star to the south
- Proxima Scorpion sent north to the Yellow star, new Scorpion sent to relieve it
- Gienah Scorpion could explore the Yellow star south of it, but I dare not risk it

2340:

- Two new Scorpions arrive for my successor!
 
Largely uneventful turns. I did some micro on the research, I think it paid off. Going for Dead colonization before the first colony ship is a gamble, it is up to my successor whether he wishes to take over that gamble or go for rapid colonization. I made the mistake of not getting Scorpions in place when Hydrogen hit, now we're wasting turns before we can explore the new systems.
 
If we are taking the interpretation that we always completely wipe out the people we're trying to invade, then I'd say no, no invading planets in revolt. After all, the point of convincing people to revolt is so that they will become communist, and if we wipe them out when we invade, then we're wiping out our own brothers in arms. Hardly just rewards for having converted to communism, now is it? Besides, if we want to wipe them out, we should be nuking from orbit like we do elsewhere.

The only circumstance in which it's reasonable to invade under the Communist flavour is an invasion of liberation. If we're sufficiently paranoid (xenophobic) to kill even communist aliens, then we'd just nuke anyway. If not, then we'd have to take the interpretation that there are some communist aliens remaining alive alongside our invaders.

Regarding C3, I was just thinking it should be void if we get into Final War.

EDIT: Regarding images, as far as uploading goes, you can either use the upload file function at the bottom of the page (note, best used if you only have a few small images) or you can use the RB upload function, though I have not tried it. If you are having trouble with the latter, you can always post something over at the RB forums and KoP or Gris will be happy to explain it to you.
 
And a question -- why deuterium? That's range 5, yes? It won't advance us on the tech tree. If you were talking about Irridium (range 6) then I'd say yes, go for that over nuclear... but if your only choices were Nuclear engines or Deuterium, then Nuclear engines seems the clear winner to me as it opens up later techs, where Deuterium does not.

Regarding the Dead tech gambit, one option would be to get a couple ships built for the most important planets we want, and then finish Dead research.

EDIT: Are you sure you uploaded the right save file? I'm showing we still have 2 scouts and no tech.
 
Sorry about that, this should be the correct one.

As for Deuterium, I wanted to make sure we could reach the southern planets fast. In hindsight, I think I should have gone for Deuterium first, at least combined with the Dead gambit for delayed colony ships. I don't expect higher-level Propulsion techs to be necessary in the near future, considering that our enemies seem to be stunted and far away, but I could be wrong.

As long as we can defend the outlying planets with Scorpions, I think it'd be more economical to wait for Dead to hit before finishing the first colony ships. 123gc is a big discount. But that is up for my successor to decide, of course, sorry for tying your hands somewhat.
 

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Catwalk said:
Sorry about that, this should be the correct one.

As for Deuterium, I wanted to make sure we could reach the southern planets fast. In hindsight, I think I should have gone for Deuterium first, at least combined with the Dead gambit for delayed colony ships. I don't expect higher-level Propulsion techs to be necessary in the near future, considering that our enemies seem to be stunted and far away, but I could be wrong.

As long as we can defend the outlying planets with Scorpions, I think it'd be more economical to wait for Dead to hit before finishing the first colony ships. 123gc is a big discount. But that is up for my successor to decide, of course, sorry for tying your hands somewhat.

Actually, I think that Hydrogen fuel cells was not a bad choice. With range 4 we can get to Paladia, Gienah, and Proxima. It's true that we can't get to Bootis with range 4, needing range 5... but I'm not all that worried about getting a slightly later start on planets safely in our back lines. I'm more worried about establishing forward borders, and Range 4 is sufficient to let us get a good start on that. But getting range 4 and then not using it by waiting for Dead bases strikes me as a waste; in that case we should certainly have gone straight for range 5 to begin with.

As for waiting for Dead before building colony ships... before building colony ships in bulk, perhaps. But I often find it's useful to get a couple colonies built earlier rather than later for the purposes of enabling more population growth centers. The cost of colonizing new worlds is not just measured in what it takes to build a colony ship, but also in what it takes to populate that new colony. Waiting for Dead bases to come in before colonizing, and then having to strip our mature worlds which have lots of employed people to populate worlds that have no factories on them strikes me as a costly move at this stage of the game. I think we want to get one or two more colonies built and starting to grow, using pop that is currently unemployed on our initial two worlds, before we shift to completing Dead research and maxing our core worlds. This will let us have more sources of unemployed people to draw upon for further colonization efforts once Dead bases is complete and we start pumping out colony ships en masse.
 
I see it, will try to play tomorrow night. I've never done the extreme-micro-research thing, can either Catwalk or Zed post a BRIEF summary of how/why it works? As for the col ships/dead tech thing, I tend to follow Zed's lines, in that I like to have some colonies going early. Even more so here, since a planet we don't nab is lost to us forever unless we can invade on revolt (if that's even going to be allowed).
 
dathon, if you wish to keep Planetology research running at max interest, simply add ~22.5% RP each turn. I didn't manage it extremely carefully, I just added between 1/4 and 1/5 every turn. As long as you only have to manage one field, it's not too bad. Managing two fields is doable too, especially if you invest the same amount in each.

When I play by myself, I usually cheat and check the science investment with an editor on occasion, especially if I lose track of my investment.

There is no need to do this on future research if you think it's too much trouble, but I think it'll work out well on the current project.
 
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