OSG9 -- Mighty Meklars

Pre Game

Open up the save, everything looks to be in good order, with Meklon and Bootis ready to finish terraforming next turn. The most pressing problem for us seems to be obtaining Phyco before the Rocks get it. Rng 4 won't get us there, and if there are no range techs in the next tier, we could be in trouble. However, after whipping out my ship design spreadsheet, I see that Rng 4 + 80% + Controlled Dead will allow us to build an LR col ship, so there could still be hope if we get shafted on propulsion tech. The only veto I make is to send the LR at Rayden to Phyco. There has been no activity in that area, and we can deploy an LR from Meklon faster anyway if necessary.

The Next 10 Years

I'm trying to get away from turnlog-style reporting, so forgive me if this turns out hard to follow. After hitting next turn, I get my first tough decision when Rng 4 comes in, and all 3 techs are available (Rng 5, Rng 6, and Stabilizers). Well, the stabilizers are obviously out, but what to do on the range front? Rng 5 is 1/3 the cost of Rng 6, and 1/4 the cost of Controlled Dead, so that would seem to be the best bet for obtaining Phyco. However, if the Rocks decide they really want the planet, then we'll have wasted 1000 RP by not jumping directly to Rng 6. Well, fortune favors the bold, so I decide to go with Rng 5 to try and make a serious play for Phyco. RW 80% also came in on my watch, with our only next option being IIT 8.

After terraforming and building 8 popguns for Jinga (may be a waste, but I'm paranoid!), Meklon built a col ship in 4 turns. In the mean time, the rocks sent one of their col ships at Pollus towards Jinga, and with no activity in the Maretta region, I decided to send that ship to Jinga first. I just don't like the idea with an alien race within 3 parsecs of our homeworld, and I don't think our xenophobic people would either :p Meklon will finish Maretta's ship in 1 more turn, and there is an LR laser 2 turns from the planet. Jinga will be founded next turn.

Our lone scout peeked at Vox long enough to discover it was a size 45 minimal, then headed to the green star NW of there, and met a human scout over Hyboria, a size 75 Minimal. We both ran. This could have serious implications, as the very next turn the Darloks declared war on us, and the turn after that, Hyboria went green :eek: I did manage to plant a spy with the shape shifters, they have Range 6, Class II shields, and terra +20%. By the time my turns ended, they were no longer allied with the Silicoids (phew!) but were with the Klackons. They can't reach us for now, but will be in range of Jinga.

On the homefront, I terraformed Rayden and Thrax when they could do it in two turns, and had them build some more factories, until my last three turns. I got a bad premonition about Phyco, so I switched Bootis over to some LR lasers and put the other two on research into Rng 5 (which has been running full bore since RW 80% popped). May be :smoke:, but I just had a bad feeling about it.

Post Game

We are still cruising as fast as we can at getting to Phyco. Range 5 is about halfway done, and there will be a contingent of 4 LR lasers there in a few turns; that should hold off all but a concentrated effort by the Silicoids. The Darlok conflict could get interesting when Jinga gets founded, as it should be in range of Hyboria. We may want to pause after Rng 5 and at least pick up the first techs in shields, computers, and weapons to be able to put some kind of defense together if the Darloks decide to turn this into a Real Fight(TM). I put Bootis back on research, and the border colonies on factories; next leader will have to decide how comfortable they are with our current fleet.


The Save
 
Wow, quick turnaround dathon, less than 18 hours :eek:

Roster:
Olorin
Zed-F
dathon << Just played
StuporMan << Up now
Liquidated << On deck
Yuri


Good luck StuporMan!

edit: I just looked at the save, and dathon took a 10 year turn, so let's go ahead and make it 10 years per turn from now on. So StuporMan, just go until 2360.

I also noticed that the defensive spying was set at 16% on overall security, which translates to 8% of total planetary spending. I should have been more clear on the varient rule, but I intended the 4% defensive spying per race to be based on the overall security rating, not on the planetary spending ratio. If you turn us down to 8% security, it will only use up 4.3% of planetary spending.
 
Analysis: Good to see your reasoning behind the tech picks. I agree with you that range 5 was the way to go because getting Phyco will really help us have a solid number of good planets to start with.

Are we trying to steal techs from the Darlocks? We could skip researching range 6 if we take it instead, and FF2 would let us skip the first level of force field techs. Plus it would make any missile bases immune to normal lasers.

8 popguns is definitely not overdoing it at Jinga. More would be good since it takes quite awhile for 8 lasers to wear down a colony ship, while the popguns die much quicker. The 4 LR Laz at Phyco are better off, they have the same number of guns, but they each take more damage before dieing off.

We are off to a pretty good start. If we can manage to grab Phyco, and get some defenses up all around, we'll be in good shape.

edit: We can also consider asking the Silicoids to go to war with the Darlocks. As they have already declared on us, we are allowed to under the variant rules. It could also distract the rockheads from making a try for Phyco. Opinions?
 
I'm not sure of the nuts and bolts of spying, but I'm not sure we even CAN steal Range 6. My experience with espionage is that the difference in computer skill not only affects success, but determines the level of techs that can be stolen. Anybody else have some harder data on this? In any case, as the Darlok's are up a computer skill on us, and will probably have more very soon, I think stealing techs from them is unlikely, especially if they are their normal diplomatic selves.

As for asking the rocks to declare on the Darlok's... I don't know. Part of me says yes, exploit the advantage, part of me feels that it is a little too exploitive. I'll go with the group consensus on this one.

dathon
 
Darlocks are tougher to spy on, but it's still doable. Range 6 would require that we have multiple spy networks, but there are other techs that we could get easier. ECM1 doesn't help them that much, it's a very low level tech (but it's still a good choice for us to steal first).

I tend to agree with you a bit on the war. If the Darlocks never send ships our way, then we really don't need to get the rocks involved. If the Darlocks do decide to make this a real war, then I've no problem with getting the rockheads involved.
 
ok doing this by hand sooo....

Espionage is a spy's attempt to steal a technology from another player, and it's always a crap shoot. First, each spy that successfully infiltrates a seperate random number is rolled, from 1 to the infiltrated player's highest technogly level in his or her most advanced technology sector.

The highest roll from all spies making this espionage check is used and called the steal number, which is the highest possible technology level of the single item they will steal that turn,

moo bible by emrich & hughes


Cheers!
-Liq
 
I have decided to abstain from asking the Rock-heads for help unless the Darloks send ships against us. The minute a Darlok ship invades our space, I will dial up our hard-headed friends.

Inherited Turn (2350): Switch Defensive spending back down to the minimum required level 8% overall security (4% total spending). Increase offensive spying against Darloks up to 6.8% total spending.
Switch production at Meklon from LR Laser ships to a Colony Ship, it will build in 1 turn (I want to get Maretta up and going before we have an opponent on our northern border).

2351: Jinga Settled, New Colony ship sent to Maretta. Transferring several colonists from each existing colony to jumpstart Jinga (35 total). No sign of a Darlok fleet, but I will make 7 more popguns for Jinga's defense, then switch Meklon to research to get range 5 ASAP. I check the diplo menu to find that once again the Rock Heads are Allied with the Darloks. This could get interesting.

2352: Scare Rockhead colony ship away from Jinga. Darloks again are allied only with Klackons. Still no sign of a fleet. Meklon's research brings range 5 to 2%. I notice that the Darlok colony of Hyboria brings Thrax into range of the Darloks, I may have to build some more popguns in a turn or two. A quick look at the map reveals that Darloks have 7 colonies. Looks like a runaway Darloks a possibility, not a good prospect. Darloks are dangerous with a tech and production lead.

2353: Darloks now span the Southern portion of the map. It looks like we have a runaway Darlok. Be prepared to replace lots of factories and missile bases.

2354: Split research between Propulsion and Force Fields. Range 5 @ 20%.

2355: Busy Turn. Range 5 comes in. Start research on Force Field 2, and decide to go for Range 6 to speed along getting better engines. Inertial Stabilizers are good for tech trading (highly valued) but we will need a reduction in travel time more than combat speed at this point. Change research priorities to computers and force fields, with 4 clicks to weapons to see what our options are.

Maretta founded triggering the first vote. It is Us vs Silicoids. Silicoids and Darloks vote Silicoid (8 total votes), the rest abstain.

Vote1.jpg


Bulrathi take Hyboria from the Darloks, bringing them into contact. Defensive spending increased. It looks like the Darlok may have expanded too fast, they might not run off with it after all.



Meklon starts on Colony Ship, will be done in 5 turns (reloc point set to Bootis to shave a turn of transit).

2356: Get all 3 options on computer tech, but choose ECM 1 due to its cheapness. Only option in weapons is gatling :(. Check on Bulrathi and they are allied to Humans. Darlok colony ship spotted near Thrax, is headed away from our territory, likely coming from the south. Check on Darloks and they have Computer MK2, they likely stole it from the rockheads.

2357: Darlok fleet may be headed for Jinga, but can't tell at this point.

2358: Bulrathi now allied with Silicoids as well.

2359: Darlok colony ship is due at Jinga in 2 turns (unless I am mistaken). Hopefully 15 popguns will be enough.

2360: ECM 1 lands early (I believe at 2% last turn), choose Battle Computer 3 over ECM 2. Phyco's Colony Ship comes in. Set research to all even. Production set to even between factories and research at all established colonies.

Here is a look at the map as it stands currently.

GalMap.jpg
 

Attachments

Thank you Liq! :goodjob: I actually have that manual, just buried in a box somewhere. So basically, that boils down to not being able to steal a tech that is higher than your best tech level. That would definitely put Range 6 out of the realm of possibility, but if we think the BC's are a good investment, we could take a stab at ECM I or Class II. Personally, I would use those BC's to speed our capture of Phyco, max our production sooner, and get something more than cardboard cutouts manning the walls, but that is of course the purvue of the next few emperors :king:

dathon

edit: Whoops, cross-posted with Stupor
 
Looks good Stupor!

BTW, Hyboria is 7 parsecs from Thrax, so unless the Darloks picked up another range tech, that planet isn't threatened unless they are allied with the rocks (I checked my last save to make sure). Speaking of last saves... I left (or at least meant to) Meklon on that colony ship; that's why it could be built in one turn. Must have had an errant click that changed the production. Good catch! :goodjob: We should no longer be in contact with the Darloks, correct?

dathon
 
A point of clarification: Range 6 is TL9, Stabilizers is TL10. As far as helping us up the tree faster goes, the difference is negligible. Stabilizers lets us field better ships, whereas Range 6 lets us take the war to the Darloks at their closest world. But we're not really ready to do that yet and won't be for a while. I probably would have gone with Stabilizers. What if our only choice at the next level is Range 7?

Also, spying on the Darloks is probably a waste of money, since they have better computer tech and a 20% defensive bonus.
 
just for clarification, did we scout that green and blue north west of us? The green is 6 parces range from us now and I could send an armed placeholder to it on my turn np.

Cheers!
-Liq
 
Probably unscouted; they were not in range until Jinga/Maretta were colonized.
 
We are still in contact with Darloks. Stalaz is 6 parsecs from Thrax. I have not scouted any more systems, thinking that other than Phyco and our back line worlds we would have to take the rest by force.

The green world is a 6 parsecs. I thought it would be too far a strech, but fortune favors the bold.

I apologize for the weedy decision to go with range 6. As I have said before I am not the best MOO player out there. As to spying on Darloks, yes it was likely to be a waste of money, but since I had just pulled some off defensive spending (down from 8% total to 8% security) I used about half the amount gained back to try and steal, so the money was never really "missed". Actually I had a few saves of earlier turns I wanted to review for the posting and after clicking next turn on one of them we got an espionage success (all fields). So there is a chance at a lucky dice roll, even from behind against Darloks.
 
Roster:
Olorin
Zed-F
dathon
StuporMan << Just played
Liquidated << Up now
Yuri << On deck

Nice round StuporMan. My only comment is that you could have started building the colony ships for Phyco before the Range 5 hit, and saved a few turns on colonizing Phyco (but at the cost of researching other techs). In this case, the techs might have been the best call because the rockheads haven't shown any interest in Phyco.

On the spying issue, in this situation, I'd probably stick 2-4 clicks into offensive spying against the Darlocks as long as we're at war, and hope for some luck. Even if we don't get something groundbreaking, IIT9 or IT20 would be nice little boosts to our economy. One thing to remember is that we're not allowed to use ground invasions, so trading and stealing are our only options to pick up techs from the AIs.
 
Ok, I dug up my old Orion manual, and did a little footwork on the spying question. When spying, every spy makes two separate checks each turn, the first to see if they infiltrate, the second to measure success. The Darlok's have a +23 advantage on the first check (+20 from racial bonus, +3 from them having BC II, a level 5 computer tech, compared to our ECM I, a level 2). According to the manual, the most efficient number of spies to use would be two, and there would only be a 34% chance of at least one of them hitting. Odds on both succeeding are very small. If the first check is successful, there is a flat 15% check for success on technology esionage. So the chance of stealing a tech is only (.34)(.15) = 5.1%.

Now, given our tech levels, there are only 3 techs of interest that I remember seeing open to us: BC II, FF II, and IIT 9. IT20 is level 8, and out of spying reach completely. The costs for those techs are, respectively, 600, 640, and 360 (impossible game, excellent at computers). Our first spy would cost 29 BC, the second 58, for a total of 87. Doing a simple set of opportunity cost equations:

0.051(360-87) - .949(87) = -68.64
0.051(600-87) - .949(87) = -56.4
0.051(640-87) - .949(87) = -54.36

Basically, the probability equation is the chance of success times what you gain (cost of the tech stolen minus the cost of the spies to get it) - chance of failure times what you lose (cost of the spies). The outcome is our average gain/loss per chance over time. As can be seen, spying right now is a losing proposition for us, especially since I haven't even figured in the roll that determines what techs are available to steal if a success is generated, meaning these results are OPTIMISTIC :eek: Oh, and the odds of a spy dying? 50% :suicide:

So yeah, I would definitely advocate that we abstain from trying to pick the Darlok's at the moment. That money can be much better spent on growth, teching, and defense.

dathon
 
Thanks for the footwork dathon. I haven't got my hands on the strategy guide, so I've never known the mechanics behind spying.

I always knew the Darlocks were tough to spy on...but ouch :hammer2:

I guess we need to wait until we get a lead in computers, but that will be hard against Darlocks on Impossible. I guess the cost/benefit analysis would also change if they had techs that were absent from our tree.
 
preturn: turn off spying on darloks as it's not worth it
send laz from Marretta to green to see what's up scout from jinga to blue.

osg92360greenplanet.jpg


looks like no tech advances for me this round lol

[1]2361 AD
uh green just got colonized by darloks meaning 6 parsecs from jinga... laz will have some fun prolly with irma in the meantime.

sent colony from bootis over to phyco in 6

darklok colonyship at jinga ran.

[2]2362 AD no news is good news

[3]2363 AD sillys sent a colony and a medium warship towards phycho, we can repel them.

[4]2364 AD
ug pc crash again, not sure what is up.
wow jinga is up to 1 factory a year!!!!!

[5]2365 AD
ug ok meklars AND bulrathis declare war on us.. that's 3 for 3 but the sillys are next door dangerous.....

Force shields are now 1% and almost nothing else in any other bulbs....

Jinga is a lost cause if anyone tries to attack it's barely able to build a factory much less anything else.

[6]2366 AD
battle at phycho!
colony and medium are armed, missles and a laser for the mudim just a laser for the colony, we kill the medium for no losses and the silly colony flees.

I start rayden on a missle base in 3 turns.

green turns out to be a 95 terran =/ darloks own it.

[7]2367 AD
blue is keeta a tundra ultrarich 45 =/ 8 parces from us.


[8]2368 AD ug. silly colony is sitting on top of rayden with a base due next turn, gonna take a shipment of troops tho

[9]2369 AD more stuff coming this time from darkloks, 3 mediums to jinga...

[10]2370 AD Force shields 2 comes in, only choice is personal force shields....


I'm leaving the game looking very very ugly.


Darloks bulls and sillys are at war and have aliances with eachother. I waited for forcefields to come in before commiting a new ship design.

New guy is up next, he's gonna be in for a rough ride:sad:




Cheers!
-Liq
 
Roster:
Olorin << On deck
Zed-F
dathon
StuporMan
Liquidated << Just played
Yuri << Up now

Liq: Tough round. Three front war is going to be ugly. Time to get some missile bases up, and to build more ships to defend Jinga. We may want to use Jinga for tech until we get a proven defense fleet there. No sense in building factories for the AI to take.

edit: Don't forget to post your save file Liq.
 
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