Overwhelming power gets boring

[Breunor]

I really wonder why Civ doesn't have this. Seems most games do, in the RTS genre at least. The AI will realize you're superior and that they don't stand a chance and either just surrender outright (Age of Empires II-style) or give you a dialogue box where you can choose to accept victory or play on. Civ4/FFH only has the option to resign or quit, which don't record your game as a victory in the Hall of Fame.

They do - they are the conquest and domination victory conditions. The issue is whether they are too restrictive. However, in regular Civ, you have to be more careful (because the computer AI is better at the unusual victory conditions). I remember one game where I was going to declare myself the winner and Korea won a cultural victory.

But I think the main reason, to be honest, is that getting the victory cutscene and going into the Hall of Fame just aren't the highest priorities; we can still declare ourselves the winner. Most people who do worry about the Hall of Fame have plenty of victories there anyway.

It comes down to focus. If Kael came back and declared he had time to spend on FfH, there are still a lot of other issues (at least I would prefer) to focus on first.

Best wishes,

Breunor

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

the solution is simple, play MoM or Tholal's Naval AI mod. both have very good AI.

 

[Valkrionn]

That's not a solution, and only a stopgap. You still reach the "mopup" point, which is what they're complaining about in this thread.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

well then you can go play some other genre I guess... each and every X4 has this "issue"


wait, there's a better solution.... call it a win when you're bored and start a new one!

 

[Valkrionn]

Which is what the last few posts settled on (and what I agree with, incidentally); just wanted to point out that your post wasn't a solution. Primarily because there is no one simple solution that will settle the issue. Any game suffers it, the point is simply to make the game enough fun that you play anyway.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

yeah I'll admit I had only read the OP before replying

still it's totally true that a good AI makes the issue less severe, thus my first suggestion.

also it's much better when the challenge comes from a good AI instead than handicaps for the player and cheats for the AI...

it's like running a race against a fast horse VS running a race against a crappy horse while you're carrying a boulder on your shoulders AND the other horse is pumped full of steroids

basically Tholal's mod is FFH 2 as it should be and MoM is FFH 3

 

[Nor'easter]

I remember someone once posted that the Tower of Mastery victory was initially tended at least in part to address this problem, since to get all the mana needed for the prerequisite towers you'd probably be much more powerful than your rivals: the most territory, control of one or more holy cities, etc. So instead of having to go wipe out each of your opponents, your overwhelming power would translate into building the Tower of Mastery and winning that way.

Of course, with the addition of Metamagic Mana and the Dispel Magic spell,that's not really true any more, since you can just dispel mana nodes and build new ones to get all the towers.

 

[Bad Player]

Which is what the last few posts settled on (and what I agree with, incidentally); just wanted to point out that your post wasn't a solution. Primarily because there is no one simple solution that will settle the issue. Any game suffers it, the point is simply to make the game enough fun that you play anyway.

I wouldn't say any game suffers from this! Maybe just strategy genre games or SP games? I can think of an obscure MP game that didn't.

 

[Valkrionn]

I would maintain that they all do, in various ways; I've never found a game where you can't feel you've won, before you've actually won.

 

[A Moon]

I would maintain that they all do, in various ways; I've never found a game where you can't feel you've won, before you've actually won.

Isn't there always that one time you're going up against the final boss of an rpg, and you're at low health, with no way to heal, and you attack in pure desperation, hoping you might be about to finish him off?

 

[Valkrionn]

Occasionally, but its almost always either not actually the final boss (as in, story is finished and.he's 'extra', requiring massive amounts of gameplay to take down and just serving as a gameplay sink... Ie, mopup) or the difficulty jump between the last two bosses was artificially inflated (again, in order to serve as a gameplay sink, making you grind and actually CAUSING the 'mopup' feel).

 

[Bad Player]

I would maintain that they all do, in various ways; I've never found a game where you can't feel you've won, before you've actually won.

I used to play a mod called Thievery for UT'99 and when you played multiplayer often you didn't know whether you would win or not. It was always very tense the whole game - as a thief you might get discovered creeping around in the shadows or trying to snatch loot from under a guard's nose or trying to escape a blocked exit!

 

[Valkrionn]

I used to play a mod called Thievery for UT'99 and when you played multiplayer often you didn't know whether you would win or not. It was always very tense the whole game - as a thief you might get discovered creeping around in the shadows or trying to snatch loot from under a guard's nose or trying to escape a blocked exit!

Multiplayer is a bit different. Human opponents can adapt; makes the whole thing much more difficult and kills much of the mopup feeling. The discussion has been mostly focused on singleplayer.

 

[SillyGoat]

Bored with SP?

Try signing up for one of the FFH PBEM games on Realms Beyond.

You won't be bored.

Trust me. :nod: