Pact of Nilhorn

[Starship]

I got to play for an extended time this weekend, and almost finished a whole epic game. Which is why I haven't updated the FAQ yet...

Anyway, I happened to build this wonder for the first time. Pact of Nilhorn. I got a random goody tech, as I never go up this tech branch first.

It's a lot of fun. My vote is for the three giants to be heroes of a sort. Just differentiate them a little from their wild breathren in the unknown hinterlands. Jorgund the wise, Barak the Beast...etc...Remember these are not just the monsters from the hills. These are giants of legend that have come to go war with allies. They are a known to the builders people, and thus should have more personality, flavor. They don't have to be alot stronger, just have some character upgrades. Since they don't really get experience. How about a strength 4 giant, with crazed. Maybe one who's a good rock thrower for the sieges, as aforementioned. Maybe the last one's a shaman with a quirky giant only spell. Could be fun.

 

[Hian the Frog]

I got to play for an extended time this weekend, and almost finished a whole epic game. Which is why I haven't updated the FAQ yet...

Anyway, I happened to build this wonder for the first time. Pact of Nilhorn. I got a random goody tech, as I never go up this tech branch first.

It's a lot of fun. My vote is for the three giants to be heroes of a sort. Just differentiate them a little from their wild breathren in the unknown hinterlands. Jorgund the wise, Barak the Beast...etc...Remember these are not just the monsters from the hills. These are giants of legend that have come to go war with allies. They are a known to the builders people, and thus should have more personality, flavor. They don't have to be alot stronger, just have some character upgrades. Since they don't really get experience. How about a strength 4 giant, with crazed. Maybe one who's a good rock thrower for the sieges, as aforementioned. Maybe the last one's a shaman with a quirky giant only spell. Could be fun.

I totally agree with you. Beginning with a strength of 4, some flavors, a name,... One should be a warrior, an other a mage and the last one a rock thrower. Promotions like Heavy, crazed or fear for the warrior, accuraty for the rock thrower and something liked with nature/earth mana for the mage.
They could be upgraded with new promo like "human" troops.
OMI, PoN could also give 1/2 culture points and 1 GPP. It would give this wonder a more attractive taste.
I also think that common Hill Giants quickly become useless. Hunters make their lifes harder (if not impossible) and Macemen useless. That's why the idea of three "hero-like" Hill Giant is a very very good idea.

The Frog

 

[Sarisin]

It's a lot of fun. My vote is for the three giants to be heroes of a sort. Just differentiate them a little from their wild breathren in the unknown hinterlands. Jorgund the wise, Barak the Beast...etc...Remember these are not just the monsters from the hills. These are giants of legend that have come to go war with allies. They are a known to the builders people, and thus should have more personality, flavor. They don't have to be alot stronger, just have some character upgrades. Since they don't really get experience. How about a strength 4 giant, with crazed. Maybe one who's a good rock thrower for the sieges, as aforementioned. Maybe the last one's a shaman with a quirky giant only spell. Could be fun.

I really like this idea - it would definitely make Pact of Nilhorn worth going for. Like you, I just stumbled on it once - never built it before because there was always something else more needed and with raging barbs you are usually busy putting out fires everywhere and have no luxury of building wonders.

My only experience was not so good as two were quickly killed by basic lizard men.

If the Pact stays as is, I recommend the names of the giants be Moe, Larry, and Curly.

 

[Gileyal]

Maybe its the level of the game I'm playing but I've had a totally different experience with PON. I got a taste of it in another game from the computer, and this time decided to aim for it from the start. Got it while the two neighbours on my island has STR 2 units.

Killed one of them without a fight. Then nearly annihilated the other, except for one city which was able to build STR4 units which gave me a fight, and even they were only enough to hold me off for about 50 turns. My Giants all had 50-100 XP and many promotions and eventually the whole island was mine.

I agree with the suggestions for flavor - they are great. Still, playing at low levels (the 5th one, i forget its name) this bonus is huge if the position is right.

 

[H.GrenadeFrenzy]

Maybe its the level of the game I'm playing but I've had a totally different experience with PON. I got a taste of it in another game from the computer, and this time decided to aim for it from the start. Got it while the two neighbours on my island has STR 2 units.

Killed one of them without a fight. Then nearly annihilated the other, except for one city which was able to build STR4 units which gave me a fight, and even they were only enough to hold me off for about 50 turns. My Giants all had 50-100 XP and many promotions and eventually the whole island was mine.

I agree with the suggestions for flavor - they are great. Still, playing at low levels (the 5th one, i forget its name) this bonus is huge if the position is right.

I will check out the level of play when I have a chance maybe I do get it a little to late and maybe on marathon it would be more useful for longer.........I would still like for the PoN to have somesort of option to let the alliance(effectively) to have flavor effects later in the game...........this may be radical but if the Giants show up again to help after that one armagedeon issue the raging barbarians and traiters could be in for a surprize and whonever develop PoN would have something good to say about the whole experience even more so if any good changes happen for the giants......A different wonder in addition to PoN may not be possible but any alternatives are good for brainstorming.

 

[TheBoatman]

I have never found pact of nilhorn much interesting on higher difficulties, because I always beelined somewhere else. On lower diff I built it just for fun., but the personalities would be great. I don't think that giant spellcasters or specialists would look logical. My suggestion is giving them Combat+Shock, Combat+Formation, Combat+Cover (w. Strength 4-5) instead of Combat 1+2. Maybe some little advantage against hunters (10-20%) (they are human controlled not wild ones...) or maybe 1gpp great comm.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Heh, the barbs just completed the Pact of the Nilhorn on the game I'm playing... how would that work out?

 

[QES]

Heres a thought. I bet ol Kael has more than one type of giant. For future releases. Why not simply be able to "upgrade" your giants once you have them to these better giants farther along the tech/alliance tree?

Hill Giants now, tomorrow Frost Giants? Next Week Storm Giants? Woe be it to anyone who comes in the way of my 3 storm giants.

This is prolly a "quest" section to be able to access any kind of unit not readily available through technology and resources. But still, if you gained the giants in the world, there'd be no problem with allowing them to "upgrade" to a new lifestyle.

Thoughts: I miss obsolete units. I know, we want the measely warrior so we can upgrade it. But i feel as though OTHER things really ought to go out of style. The Swordsman and Maceman should go the way of the DoDo when the Pikeman roles around. (I know, different abilities innate.....but at that point most people are dealing with lots of "special" national units.........macemen vs. pikemen is Fodder v fodder.)

Still, Id like a wider variety of options, but with older options going out of date again. Am i alone?
-Qes

 

[vorshlumpf]

In my Monarch game, I've use my PotN giants quite extensively. That is mainly because I got them before I could build catapults. But even now, I prefer them because they get certain promotions that I desire (Mobility!). As for personality, I've done that a bit myself -> one has specialized in city raiding, another in melee unit munching, and another in terrain defense

Two things:

1) This may have been mentioned before, but shouldn't hill giants get some bonus in the hills? (yes, I realise this would include the barb hill giants in the beginning)

2) Shouldn't hill giants be able to pillage? They seem like prime candidates for such action

- Niilo

 

[Hian the Frog]

1) This may have been mentioned before, but shouldn't hill giants get some bonus in the hills? (yes, I realise this would include the barb hill giants in the beginning)

I don't think it's a good idea. Hill Giants are strong enough at the begining of the game... Kael said that they are more or less nearly stupid, so how can they use hills as a defence bonus.

2) Shouldn't hill giants be able to pillage? They seem like prime candidates for such action

I agree with you on that point. They should be able to pillage. But because they are "animals" units, barb Hills Giants never go inside your frontiers so pillaging seems useless.
Meanwhile, those of PON should be able to pillage... and more, a strong pillage. They are Hill Giants, with great strength and capabilities of destruction...

The Frog.

 

[Bad Player]

Hill giants are killed by hunters too easily imo.

 

[vorshlumpf]

One could say that hunters specialise in all 'wild' creatures, including giants.

I don't think it's a good idea. Hill Giants are strong enough at the begining of the game... Kael said that they are more or less nearly stupid, so how can they use hills as a defence bonus.

Yeah, I should have been more specific. I was thinking more along the lines of a movement bonus, not defensive bonus. It would certainly make an impact on my early game exploration if I knew a hill giant could suddenly bound over a hill.

- Niilo

 

[QES]

One could say that hunters specialise in all 'wild' creatures, including giants.


Yeah, I should have been more specific. I was thinking more along the lines of a movement bonus, not defensive bonus. It would certainly make an impact on my early game exploration if I knew a hill giant could suddenly bound over a hill.

- Niilo

Hill giants are clumsy, slow, and stupid. They may have the natural ability to run around on hills and kick butt, but they dont know they can. So they dont.
I like the idea that something can, but doesnt do something. Hill giants dont get the promotion, because they're stupid. IF they get the promotions from the pact, its cause they're being handled (trained, befriended) by smarter smaller creatuers who encourage them to......wreck cities with pleasure... or, "hide behind that tree and wait for them to come around the corner", or "the guys with shiny pointy things are very bad, go stomp on their faces," Etc.
-Qes

 

[Sarisin]

I have to thank you for improving this Wonder. This time I had the chance to build it and the former Three Stooges/Hill Giants are much improved. Giving them the Combat I promotion ensures they don't immediately get killed by raging Lizardmen. And, the bombard ability is great - I think it is better than the catapaults.

I sent them out to take down barb cities and they were great at it.

The only suggestions I would still ask for them is the ability to pillage and, please, please, give us a measley Culture pt. for this Wonder.

Thank you sir,

 

[Kael]

I have to thank you for improving this Wonder. This time I had the chance to build it and the former Three Stooges/Hill Giants are much improved. Giving them the Combat I promotion ensures they don't immediately get killed by raging Lizardmen. And, the bombard ability is great - I think it is better than the catapaults.

I sent them out to take down barb cities and they were great at it.

The only suggestions I would still ask for them is the ability to pillage and, please, please, give us a measley Culture pt. for this Wonder.

Thank you sir,

Added 2 culture per turn to Pack of the Nilhorn, and gave Hill Giants the ability to pillage.

 

[vorshlumpf]

I'm having my second game in a row where I got these giants and they are cleaning house. I got the short stick in a close-quarters, Monarch game with Evil civs all around me. I attacked one to clear up some space for my second city, and another declared war on me shortly afterward. Despite being a step-behind in tech, they can't do much to me because of Larry, Darryl, and Darryl.

I'm starting to think they may be a bit much - perhaps a lower bombard rate would slow them down?

- Niilo

P.S.: Good to see they'll get pillage =)

 

[Frozen-Vomit]

Added 2 culture per turn to Pack of the Nilhorn, and gave Hill Giants the ability to pillage.

I would like to see the pact turnend into a ritual because that seems more in flavour than being a world wonder. But that would make it impossible to have it give culture in the city that build it, right?

 

[Kael]

I would like to see the pact turnend into a ritual because that seems more in flavour than being a world wonder. But that would make it impossible to have it give culture in the city that build it, right?

Yeah, thats correct. I was thinking about that, it could go either way. I will probably just leave it a wonder as it doesnt fit as either a ritual or a building and I would rather muddy the building waters than rituals.

 

[Sarisin]

Added 2 culture per turn to Pack of the Nilhorn, and gave Hill Giants the ability to pillage.

What happened?

Built Pact of Nilhorn my last game.

The 3 giants don't have the Combat 1 promotion. I expected that because you said you took it away to give them pillage ability.

However, they cannot pillage and there is no 2 culture per turn as mentioned above when you build it.

The bombard is great, but what happened to the rest?

Thanks.

 

[Frozen-Vomit]

What happened?

Built Pact of Nilhorn my last game.

The 3 giants don't have the Combat 1 promotion. I expected that because you said you took it away to give them pillage ability.

However, they cannot pillage and there is no 2 culture per turn as mentioned above when you build it.

The bombard is great, but what happened to the rest?

Thanks.

It's changed. But you have to wait for the next version to play with it.