Passive agressive Vassal domination
- Thread starter Mutineer
- Start date
Pre-turn
We lack workers.
IBT 1583 AD
Tours has been captured by Ottomans.
IBT 1607 AD
Genghis razes Lyons.
Louis capitulates to Mehmed and declares war on Huayna.
1610 AD (10)
Replaceable Parts is known, start to research Rifling.
IBT 1613 AD
Louis has re-settled Lyons before we could found a new city.
We have to look for a new target to vassalize.
We lack workers.
IBT 1583 AD
Tours has been captured by Ottomans.
IBT 1607 AD
Genghis razes Lyons.
Louis capitulates to Mehmed and declares war on Huayna.
1610 AD (10)
Replaceable Parts is known, start to research Rifling.
IBT 1613 AD
Louis has re-settled Lyons before we could found a new city.
We have to look for a new target to vassalize.
slowcar
King
we should use our momentum and declare on mehmed as long as the grenadiers ghengis can field still have the power to crush him.
I would take his Cyrus gold first thougth.
Sell him some tech.
1200+ gold, to attractive to miss.
we can go after Maxmed to, he has big stack near absolute units we would like him to burn on our land, but I am more in favor of Cyrus, becaus ehe is near by.
And we should have settlers in reserve, so we do not miss opportunities to settle.
Sell him some tech.
1200+ gold, to attractive to miss.
we can go after Maxmed to, he has big stack near absolute units we would like him to burn on our land, but I am more in favor of Cyrus, becaus ehe is near by.
And we should have settlers in reserve, so we do not miss opportunities to settle.
shyuhe
Deity
what military tech is Cyrus up to? I would go after whoever Khan's CR grenadiers can beat up on (whoever doesn't have cavalry).
negyvenketto
Scientist
Unfortunatelly, I'm busy in RL, need a skipp. 
I can play again at the weekend.
I can play again at the weekend.Well on start of turn sell Cyrus Liberalism for his gold, got some gold from others.
Set research to 100% and move most of our obsolute units to direction of Khan.
Declare War on Cyrus. Khan come with nice stacks.
I gift Him a lot of our praets and give him all together 600Gold to use for upgrades.
He did upgrade everything to Greens promptly. I migth gift him too mach gold, he keept 3 cities.
Now we need to watch he do not go free because of reaching 50% of our population (He is currently on 35%).
Cyrus more or less a history, but refuse to capitulate with the same rediculous excuse (You must be Joking).
I suspect that we did not kill enogth of his power(I find only 3 units on open), when Khan going around killing everything he sees.
When riffling come I draft some and replace allmost all our absolute units with riffles, sending old units to Khan.
Khan eventially stop aceepting units. After taking a few cities he accept some more, but now he is not accepting units at all.
We need to put him into some other war soon.
We have choise between Hatty and Maxmed.
Hatty more advanced (Still not enogth) and near.
On other hand Khan more lickly to keep Hatty cities. We do not want him to keep to many cities, or he will get 50% population and go free.
Maxmed far away, but Khan will raise his cities or we eat them culturally.
Just look on Power Graph Khan upgrading our units for 600Gold I gift to him.
Research wize I went steel, with intention to gift him Cats and he upgrade to Cannons.
The only thin that slow Khan down is he wait for one cat to reduce defence. So we need to do it for him or provide him with mean to do it fast.
I gift him steel, but did not bring him up to riffles, to prevent trades, but now we probably should, so he do not trade steel.
Stack units yet to gift to Khan cllected in his capital, waiting when Khan willa accept units again. May be we should gift him a little gold each turn so he do ot disband his units, but use them in full efficiency.
Save:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/84898/Mutineer_Passive-Agressive_II_AD-1670.CivWarlordsSave
Edit:
PS: I build bunch of settlers, if one need a settler there is a few aund the map.
I setlle one city and one settler is in place for second (Near France.)
Research set to Democracy, as we do not need any military tech and I do want SoL to consolidate our research for ever.
Set research to 100% and move most of our obsolute units to direction of Khan.
Declare War on Cyrus. Khan come with nice stacks.
I gift Him a lot of our praets and give him all together 600Gold to use for upgrades.
He did upgrade everything to Greens promptly. I migth gift him too mach gold, he keept 3 cities.
Now we need to watch he do not go free because of reaching 50% of our population (He is currently on 35%).
Cyrus more or less a history, but refuse to capitulate with the same rediculous excuse (You must be Joking).
I suspect that we did not kill enogth of his power(I find only 3 units on open), when Khan going around killing everything he sees.
When riffling come I draft some and replace allmost all our absolute units with riffles, sending old units to Khan.
Khan eventially stop aceepting units. After taking a few cities he accept some more, but now he is not accepting units at all.
We need to put him into some other war soon.
We have choise between Hatty and Maxmed.
Hatty more advanced (Still not enogth) and near.
On other hand Khan more lickly to keep Hatty cities. We do not want him to keep to many cities, or he will get 50% population and go free.
Maxmed far away, but Khan will raise his cities or we eat them culturally.
Just look on Power Graph Khan upgrading our units for 600Gold I gift to him.
Research wize I went steel, with intention to gift him Cats and he upgrade to Cannons.
The only thin that slow Khan down is he wait for one cat to reduce defence. So we need to do it for him or provide him with mean to do it fast.
I gift him steel, but did not bring him up to riffles, to prevent trades, but now we probably should, so he do not trade steel.
Stack units yet to gift to Khan cllected in his capital, waiting when Khan willa accept units again. May be we should gift him a little gold each turn so he do ot disband his units, but use them in full efficiency.
Save:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/84898/Mutineer_Passive-Agressive_II_AD-1670.CivWarlordsSave
Edit:
PS: I build bunch of settlers, if one need a settler there is a few aund the map.
I setlle one city and one settler is in place for second (Near France.)
Research set to Democracy, as we do not need any military tech and I do want SoL to consolidate our research for ever.
slowcar
King
Got it.
I think we should go for Mehmed/Louis, should be enough to get us domination as Hatty does not have much land. It would be too risky to let Ghengis take Hattys cities in my opinion.
I really enjoy having a super strong vassal, lets see how his SoDs plow through the green and blue longbows
I think we should go for Mehmed/Louis, should be enough to get us domination as Hatty does not have much land. It would be too risky to let Ghengis take Hattys cities in my opinion.
I really enjoy having a super strong vassal, lets see how his SoDs plow through the green and blue longbows
shyuhe
Deity
I agree with mutineer. We've gifted him so many units that we're starting to tank his economy. I wonder what his GNP looks like with all that unit maintenance (even accounting for the AI bonus). I'm a little surprised that he's keeping Cyrus' cities even though he torched all of Capac's cities. I wonder what changed the AI script?
Is Cyrus saying "surely you must be joking" because he would rather vassalize himself to Khan than to us? I wonder if that's a coding error.
Is Cyrus saying "surely you must be joking" because he would rather vassalize himself to Khan than to us? I wonder if that's a coding error.
slowcar
King
it seems that kills by our vassal do not count for us. sometimes its really strange, if its about trading the team value is all important, in other areas both are counted seperately.
I wonder how many different developer teams implemented vassal states - and if they ever talked with eachother.
I wonder how many different developer teams implemented vassal states - and if they ever talked with eachother.
Messias1120
Chieftain
I really enjoy having a super strong vassal, lets see how his SoDs plow through the green and blue longbows
Yeah, looks like a powerfull alliance.
Nice to see u guys win.
After some more thinking, Khan has open borders with Maxmed I think.
Trade income is probably a magority of his income. I think we would need to gift more then 10Gold/turn if we to declare on Maxmed.
I think we need to gift him so mach gold/turn so he start to have some gold to trade out. That is easy way to find his deficit.
Trade income is probably a magority of his income. I think we would need to gift more then 10Gold/turn if we to declare on Maxmed.
I think we need to gift him so mach gold/turn so he start to have some gold to trade out. That is easy way to find his deficit.
slowcar
King
Ghengis is a happy man, i am quite sure. He has to report to the mighty emperor of rome, sure, but he has some big army to play with.
His Power Graph looks like an Immortal AIs one now
We get a Great Artist and are now able to start a Golden Age. Actually the next player can play his turns within the GA.
Ghengis captures Persepolis after razing a few minor cities, Cyrus is out. Huayana is still sitting on his island unti Ghengis gets Astronomy - some day
Hatty actually beats us to Democracy.
I poprush our 6th university and start Oxford in Antium after National Epic completes. Moscau starts on the Iron Works, should have done this earlier imo as it is by far our best production city.
We get a double mongolian revolt in Ecbatana and Pasargadae. Be sure to assign other jobs to the artists in the sorrounding cities if they flip.
We have a settler on the move, he is just in time to found a city north of Persepolis before its revolt ends. We should be pouring culture into the city tile already and may be able to flip it if we add something from the north. Without universal suffrage we won't be able to rush anything there though but maybe its a little piece in the bigger picture.
Ghengis falls behind in pop and we have nearly four times his crop yield but Persepolis with size 17 is a major asset here. We should deny democracy to him maybe to keep his cities smaller.
The Power Rating:
Ghengis accepted our whole catapult- and praetorian stack after capturing Persepolis, got him some money as it seems
We are now paying him 10g/rd as Mutineer suggested, his GNP is higher then Huayanas
We have a few options now. Hatty has a head start of 6 rounds on the SoL.
a) start golden age now, revolt later. Gives a good production boost, SoL takes 32 turns as is. We canceled the copper-deal so hatty does not get double production.
b) get emancipation now. takes 2 turns. We have 2 unhappy faces in rome - but still 8 over limit.
c) add in bureaucracy. gets us another +50% production as rome is our capital. adds +1 turn to revolt though.
I think just hitting the GA would give us enough production to level hattys lead. Most cities have 5+ more happy then needed so we can adopt emancipation later.
Research is set on Steam Power, i think rail roads come in handy to get Ghengis troops to the front asap. But pursuing infatery may also be handy as they are a lot stronger then rifles and i am pretty sure Ghengis would eat Mehmed alive with them. He'll probably do anyhow
I think we should wait a bit until we declare to see if Ghengis moves his SoD out of Persepolis once it comes out of revolt, would save a few turns.
I have some troops on their way to Antium, we have to be able to fight Mehmeds first wave until our warmorngering vassal arrives on the battlefield.
His Power Graph looks like an Immortal AIs one now
We get a Great Artist and are now able to start a Golden Age. Actually the next player can play his turns within the GA.
Ghengis captures Persepolis after razing a few minor cities, Cyrus is out. Huayana is still sitting on his island unti Ghengis gets Astronomy - some day
Hatty actually beats us to Democracy.
I poprush our 6th university and start Oxford in Antium after National Epic completes. Moscau starts on the Iron Works, should have done this earlier imo as it is by far our best production city.
We get a double mongolian revolt in Ecbatana and Pasargadae. Be sure to assign other jobs to the artists in the sorrounding cities if they flip.
We have a settler on the move, he is just in time to found a city north of Persepolis before its revolt ends. We should be pouring culture into the city tile already and may be able to flip it if we add something from the north. Without universal suffrage we won't be able to rush anything there though but maybe its a little piece in the bigger picture.
Ghengis falls behind in pop and we have nearly four times his crop yield but Persepolis with size 17 is a major asset here. We should deny democracy to him maybe to keep his cities smaller.
The Power Rating:
Ghengis accepted our whole catapult- and praetorian stack after capturing Persepolis, got him some money as it seems
We are now paying him 10g/rd as Mutineer suggested, his GNP is higher then Huayanas
We have a few options now. Hatty has a head start of 6 rounds on the SoL.
a) start golden age now, revolt later. Gives a good production boost, SoL takes 32 turns as is. We canceled the copper-deal so hatty does not get double production.
b) get emancipation now. takes 2 turns. We have 2 unhappy faces in rome - but still 8 over limit.
c) add in bureaucracy. gets us another +50% production as rome is our capital. adds +1 turn to revolt though.
I think just hitting the GA would give us enough production to level hattys lead. Most cities have 5+ more happy then needed so we can adopt emancipation later.
Research is set on Steam Power, i think rail roads come in handy to get Ghengis troops to the front asap. But pursuing infatery may also be handy as they are a lot stronger then rifles and i am pretty sure Ghengis would eat Mehmed alive with them. He'll probably do anyhow
I think we should wait a bit until we declare to see if Ghengis moves his SoD out of Persepolis once it comes out of revolt, would save a few turns.
I have some troops on their way to Antium, we have to be able to fight Mehmeds first wave until our warmorngering vassal arrives on the battlefield.
shyuhe
Deity
Bless Khan's warmongering soul... He's got at least 20 CR grenadiers and another 10-15 cannons too... He really does have an army the size of an immortal AI. Mehmed doesn't have chemistry or replaceable parts yet, so he's not going to be a threat anytime soon. Hatty is one step away from either cavalry or rifles, so I think we should take her down next (as soon as Persepolis is out of revolt and Khan moves his SOD). I don't think the emancipation penalty is worth worrying about at this point. It's only causing 2 
and we have plenty of happy space.
Khan is picking up most of the WW for us anyways, so as long as we keep on funding him money + troops, I don't think WW will be an issue for us (particularly since we have very little borders with Hatty). If we draft a few rifles to protect Khan's stacks from knights (with combat I + pinch), he should be good to go to take down Hatty. Or do you guys think Khan will keep those cities if he attacks them? I'm not too sure, but Khan's at 22% of our land right now so we do have some room to spare.
The junk city north of Persepolis is worth founding as the vassal's culture can only take squares that are closer to his cities than ours (no matter what the cultural value). We can limit Khan's land that way.
and we have plenty of happy space. Khan is picking up most of the WW for us anyways, so as long as we keep on funding him money + troops, I don't think WW will be an issue for us (particularly since we have very little borders with Hatty). If we draft a few rifles to protect Khan's stacks from knights (with combat I + pinch), he should be good to go to take down Hatty. Or do you guys think Khan will keep those cities if he attacks them? I'm not too sure, but Khan's at 22% of our land right now so we do have some room to spare.
The junk city north of Persepolis is worth founding as the vassal's culture can only take squares that are closer to his cities than ours (no matter what the cultural value). We can limit Khan's land that way.
I am mostly worried about population, not land.
I have no idea how it is calculated and at work, can not look on his current population to ours.
I do want to take more advanced Hatty down, but there is a risk.
Khan will definatly finish anyone for as rigth now, so so long as he do not go free we won.
I have no idea how it is calculated and at work, can not look on his current population to ours.
I do want to take more advanced Hatty down, but there is a risk.
Khan will definatly finish anyone for as rigth now, so so long as he do not go free we won.
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