Patch 3.13 early thoughts
- Thread starter DrewBledsoe
- Start date
DrewBledsoe
Veteran QB
Hmm, that'll make it a tiny bit less useful.I won't be able to check if a fix actually works. Still, if I can identify the problem, should be easy to recreate the situation.
Thanks.
Bh
Yeah, i realised that sorry, as I said old habits........
Aha! I've semi-found the problem. It's not properly redding out trades. I found a save on my laptop which is still running 3.02. Loaded in on 3.13, offered Gandhi a trade for his Fur, he asked for Horses, Clam and Pig. Wouldn't take just Clam and Pig. But he would take just Gold.
Loaded the game on the laptop (3.02). Horses, Clam and Pig were all redded out! No wonder he wouldn't just take a few of those. I then checked the Resources tab of the Foreign Advisor screen - every resource I had was listed in "Will Trade" for every leader, no resources were in the "Won't Trade".
With that in mind, shouldn't be hard to track down where the problem is.
Bh
Loaded the game on the laptop (3.02). Horses, Clam and Pig were all redded out! No wonder he wouldn't just take a few of those. I then checked the Resources tab of the Foreign Advisor screen - every resource I had was listed in "Will Trade" for every leader, no resources were in the "Won't Trade".
With that in mind, shouldn't be hard to track down where the problem is.
Bh
jray
King
Excellent work!
Apparently Firaxis doesn't do much regression testing any more (that is, testing to make sure new changes don't break old functionality). Most of the reported 3.03 and 3.13 bugs are of this variety. It's like they're only going down the changelist piecemeal and verifying that each change works as intended, with complete disregard for the impact on the rest of the game.
bonafide11
Worker
Bhruic is on his way to becoming officially the new Solver 
DrewBledsoe
Veteran QB
Excellent work Bhruic !
Yeah, that's what it was. It's an offshoot of their attempt to make it so that vassals can never refuse to trade you resources. They moved the code for checking for duplicates pre-corporation until after the check for vassals (which is good). But it's also after the check for whether the trader is human. Which is bad. That means if you are a human (which the player always is, obviously), it automatically assumes that you'll trade all of your resources. Which is true, but that doesn't mean that the AI actually wants them. And it doesn't check that, because you are a human.
Anyway, it's an easy fix.
Really, the only time that being "human" should factor in is if both trading players are human. At least, I can't think of another instance where it's relevant.
Bh
Anyway, it's an easy fix.
Really, the only time that being "human" should factor in is if both trading players are human. At least, I can't think of another instance where it's relevant.
Bh
bonafide11
Worker
Are you going to fix it for us and release another version of an "unofficial" patch?
DrewBledsoe
Veteran QB
Are you going to fix it for us and release another version of an "unofficial" patch?
Im sure he will, he only just found it....let the guy breath a bit first
bonafide11
Worker
Im sure he will, he only just found it....let the guy breath a bit first
No deal!
[10 char]
Morgawr
Civ Fanatic
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2007
- Messages
- 1,235
Thanks so much for making these fixes, Bhruic! I'm eagerly waiting for the new dll.
I understand the bug with making all resources available for trade if you're human, but I'm not totally sure why the AI would still value the resources it already has. In my current game the AI's will pay money or resources for resources it already has. So what you're saying is, if the other trading partner is a human, the AI 'forgets' that it had those resources and puts a value to whatever resource that you have?
On the other hand they seem to have fine tuned how AI values resources such as dyes that bring extra happiness early on in the game. Now the AI want more than just another luxury resource. (e.g. won't accept spices for dyes but will accept gold) I guess this is an improvement.
I understand the bug with making all resources available for trade if you're human, but I'm not totally sure why the AI would still value the resources it already has. In my current game the AI's will pay money or resources for resources it already has. So what you're saying is, if the other trading partner is a human, the AI 'forgets' that it had those resources and puts a value to whatever resource that you have?
On the other hand they seem to have fine tuned how AI values resources such as dyes that bring extra happiness early on in the game. Now the AI want more than just another luxury resource. (e.g. won't accept spices for dyes but will accept gold) I guess this is an improvement.
No, no, that's the point. It doesn't value the resources it already has. That's why it asks for so many of them! For example, in my previous situation, Gandhi was asking for Horses, Clams and Pigs for Fur. Well, he already had Horses, Clams and Pigs. That's why he wouldn't accept a 1:1 or even 1:2 trade for them, he had no real use for them. But they still have some value, so at 1:3, he'd go for it. He didn't, however, have Gold, so when I offered Gold as a 1:1 trade for the Fur, he happily accepted.
What I "fixed" is the AI actually considering Horses, Clams and Pigs as valid trades. It shouldn't at that point in the game. Only once Corporations come into play should it consider them. Once I made that change, the AI correctly wouldn't take any of them, and made a (proper) offer for Fur for Gold.
Bh
What I "fixed" is the AI actually considering Horses, Clams and Pigs as valid trades. It shouldn't at that point in the game. Only once Corporations come into play should it consider them. Once I made that change, the AI correctly wouldn't take any of them, and made a (proper) offer for Fur for Gold.
Bh
DrewBledsoe
Veteran QB
I just dloaded your updated .dll Bhuric, will let you know how it goes...
Peng Qi
Emperor
OK, so add me to the list of people who aren't going to patch. How annoying. 
DrewBledsoe
Veteran QB
Hmm, but in my example it DIDN'T have horses with certainty. So how come it values Dyes as higher than horses, or am I misunderstanding you?
My early thoughts are, "Did nobody test this patch?"
Perhaps someone would like to take the initiative of keeping a running summary of the bugs found in v3.13. Does ainwood still do that these days?
The bugs Bhruic have fixed are confirmed and so they should be recognised by Firaxis. They'd appreciate a nice concise list I bet.
I just hope they are prepared to make another patch, at the very least to fix the couple of things that just got broken again, and to bring back the glance tab!
The bugs Bhruic have fixed are confirmed and so they should be recognised by Firaxis. They'd appreciate a nice concise list I bet.
I just hope they are prepared to make another patch, at the very least to fix the couple of things that just got broken again, and to bring back the glance tab!
jkp1187
Unindicted Co-Conspirator
Bhruic,
You're now #5 of my list of all-time Civ heroes, behind Sid (of course), Blake, Solver, and my old college roommate Wayne, who once spent so many straight hours in the computer lab playing Civilization II that he had difficulty micturiting afterwards....
