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Patch Information & Plans
- Thread starter Tavis
- Start date
Svar
King
From the Civ3 official site:
Notice: Unfortunately, the non-Beta patch for Civilization III: Conquests will not be ready for several more weeks. We are working hard with Atari to finalize the localizations. Once this has been completed the patch will be posted immediately. We thank you for your support, and ask that you please accept our apologies for the delay.
Notice: Unfortunately, the non-Beta patch for Civilization III: Conquests will not be ready for several more weeks. We are working hard with Atari to finalize the localizations. Once this has been completed the patch will be posted immediately. We thank you for your support, and ask that you please accept our apologies for the delay.
Slax
Prince
"Several" more weeks !!
I am just curious why they use us ( who purchased the game ) as the beta testers to find the bugs and crashes. It seems to me that some of the bugs would have been easy to spot with a little testing. It just looks like they put the game together to get it out the door and they would worry about the bugs later. Oh well don't mind me I just needed to blow off some steam. It is not just this game but others too, I see it all the time. Maybe it time to contact my congressional representative and complain about it or better yet the BBB Better Business Bureau.
Gojira54
The folly of Man
It's just a game dude, and they got some crazy deadlines set by the publisher.
I for one LOVE C3C - It is so much better and bug-free than vanilla or PTW it is not even funny. Most of the things in the patches are fan-requested enhancements or tweaks. There are only a few bugs in C3C that really affect anything (money and corruption).
I do agree in principal that it should be published after at least most of it has been tested, but the government will do nothing about that - only supply and demand will.
I for one LOVE C3C - It is so much better and bug-free than vanilla or PTW it is not even funny. Most of the things in the patches are fan-requested enhancements or tweaks. There are only a few bugs in C3C that really affect anything (money and corruption).
I do agree in principal that it should be published after at least most of it has been tested, but the government will do nothing about that - only supply and demand will.
I have been involved in the computer programming area since the late 60s. (Commercial and other areas). Believe me (or not) there are so many variables and things to test - that if every computer program (game or otherwise) was tested to perfection before it was released to the public - it would be obsolete (or not commercially viable) before it was published.
What is great about C3C is that they are allowing some very experienced game players and mod makers do a pre-release test of the patches (at their own risk) before they are made available to the public. To improve on the official release - if necessary. They should be applauded
- not critisized.warpstorm
Yumbo? Yumbo!
They did do months of testing with hundreds of testers. Bugs still crept in or couldn't be fixed with the time and budget available. Firaxis had too ship it when they did or not get paid for their work. That's the way it works for small developers like Firaxis and Breakaway.
Also its a fact of life - you have a product 99% correct - make a simple change before releasing it and it becomes only 90% correct. i.e. My (assuming it is my product) last change before releasing the product was to change: which to witch, but by mistake I changed which to watch. A simple change (took the programmer a few minutes (also a simple typing error : a not i)) - but the testing because of the complexity of the program takes several days - and not all variations could be tested. As soon as the program is on sale - a user does the unexpexted and the program crashes.
Unfortunately the more complex and varied the options in a program are the more difficult they are to test.
Oh well a few more weeks to wait I can live with that, the 1.15 beta makes the game quite playable even if still leaves some serious bugs.
I can understand games being full of bugs with the complexity of programming and the variety of PCs out there. What really annoys me are the small things that are easily fixable but aren't done because the slackers/cheapo route is taken. Things like games coming with manuals in PDF form on the CD rather then in a paper book. Or CDs coming in those paper covers rather then jewel cases. Or something that Civ3 is guilty of - having a manual that is full of errors and virtually useless.
I can understand games being full of bugs with the complexity of programming and the variety of PCs out there. What really annoys me are the small things that are easily fixable but aren't done because the slackers/cheapo route is taken. Things like games coming with manuals in PDF form on the CD rather then in a paper book. Or CDs coming in those paper covers rather then jewel cases. Or something that Civ3 is guilty of - having a manual that is full of errors and virtually useless.
Gojira54
The folly of Man
Originally posted by Harrier
I have been involved in the computer programming area since the late 60s. (Commercial and other areas). Believe me (or not) there are so many variables and things to test - that if every computer program (game or otherwise) was tested to perfection before it was released to the public - it would be obsolete (or not commercially viable) before it was published.
What is great about C3C is that they are allowing some very experienced game players and mod makers do a pre-release test of the patches (at their own risk) before they are made available to the public. To improve on the official release - if necessary. They should be applauded
Being lead Database Administrator/Systems Administrator/Programmer for my company, I wholeheartedly agree with you!
Phoa dude.
At least they're actually communicating with us.
Seriously, with that sort of attitude . . . they would have been better off not saying anything and just "surprising us" with a new patch at some random date.
You should be glad they actually take the time to commuicate and interact with the people that buy the game.
warpstorm
Yumbo? Yumbo!
To get manuals printed in time to ship with the game, they have to be sent off months before the game is done. A lot of changes were made in the last few months of C3C's development.
Slackers/cheapo? Perhaps. But if the manual is more accurate than the pre-printed ones that contain mucho errata, then I'll take it. As for no jewel cases. . . well, sometimes it's nice to not have so many cases littering my desk. I would prefer something more rigid, but space is a premium at my house. So long as the disk will be safe, I don't really care.
player1 fanatic
Fanatic
I think as for Civ3 that probelm is that PDF manual is indentical to printed ones, including the errors in units stats.
If printed one can't be updated, why not a PDF one?
If printed one can't be updated, why not a PDF one?
That's why I said if it was more accurate than the printed one. . .
I don't see why people will leap to any excuse to absolve game companies of any responsiblity for anything, what's wrong with printing a seperate paper with errors and corrections listed on it. Just admit C3C is like this because it had to be shipped before Christmas, I can understand that.
Sure Civ3 has great customer support a lot better then many of the games out there, so I'm willing to overlook having to wait a few months for the bugs to be fixed and the virtually useless manual.
gen.dragolen
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2002
- Messages
- 93
Nisku,
If you have never had to work against deadlines like that, you won't understand how they can make some of their choices.
As for improving the documentation, I would like them to start releasing errata sheets or better yet, redone manuals as part of the patches. Seperate downloads if they have to, but give us the updates. Doesn't look professional otherwise.
Time for Firaxis to start using a more extreme programming methodology. Should make for a few more 'Contented' players...
D.
If you have never had to work against deadlines like that, you won't understand how they can make some of their choices.
As for improving the documentation, I would like them to start releasing errata sheets or better yet, redone manuals as part of the patches. Seperate downloads if they have to, but give us the updates. Doesn't look professional otherwise.
Time for Firaxis to start using a more extreme programming methodology. Should make for a few more 'Contented' players...
D.
planetfall
Emperor
What you want them to us XP and give us builds for approval. Sounds similar to the iterative model they used moving to 1.15.
Didn't seem like they were confortable with us all seeing interim code. So they are back to waterfall method. Oh, well, at least they are using some process.
PF
Didn't seem like they were confortable with us all seeing interim code. So they are back to waterfall method. Oh, well, at least they are using some process.
PF
Deadlines ha, Doom3, Half-life2 pushed back, I just think that there should be better beta testing with PC games before release. Yeah ok there are many different systems that PC games can operate on, but the game it self having bugs is not acceptable to me. Look at Console games, if PC games had quality control that the consoles have then we would be seeing less bugged games and less patches to fix these bugs. Yeah console games have some bugs but not like most PC games. Its just that the developers of PC game know that they can get away with patching there game after releases, so most of them do it.
Having to pay 30 bucks for an expansion pack, thats more than half of what a full game may costs, and its full of bugs. Yeah some developers are not that big and don't have all the money but Atari is not a small name.
All I am saying is I hope in the future the PC game developers/puplishers will do some more beta testing before release to produce more bug free games. On the other hand if the PC game developers and puplishers don't care about their names getting trashed and dragged though the mud then they will continue putting out buggy games.
You cannot be heard if you keep your mouth shut, so I opened mine.
Having to pay 30 bucks for an expansion pack, thats more than half of what a full game may costs, and its full of bugs. Yeah some developers are not that big and don't have all the money but Atari is not a small name.
All I am saying is I hope in the future the PC game developers/puplishers will do some more beta testing before release to produce more bug free games. On the other hand if the PC game developers and puplishers don't care about their names getting trashed and dragged though the mud then they will continue putting out buggy games.
You cannot be heard if you keep your mouth shut, so I opened mine.
Commander Bello
Say No 2 Net Validations
I am very glad about the fact that the beta patches have been released. With the 1.15, C3C at least is playable.
As it seems to be Tavis who is responsible for that decision, I absolutely agree to his decision and appreciate it!
Nevertheless... In the previous postings a lot of the posters seemed to claim that we as player community have to be thankful for the release of C3C. And after it was so obvious that it was buggy, we additionally had to be thankful that they released patches.
Others state that their are deadlines, and that you cannot make a 100% bugfree game.
But, nobody should forget that some people had to pay good money for this game. Seems to me, that some posters didn't have to pay - at least not their own money.
To make a game bugfree (or to do everything to make it having as less bugs as possible) is not a personal favour of the companies involved in the developing and distribution process, it is the least what the customer is expecting.
The announcement that the final release of the 1.15 patch will last for some additional weeks due to problems with the localization is just an infamy.
Atari obviously has the structures to do such a localization process, since they did it in the past. Most of the localization has already been done, since C3C is available in non-english languages. With some good project management, this task could be done in days, not weeks. Of course, first the patch has to be finalised. I severely doubt that this is the case.
The pure fact that they still have bugs in the game, in the documentation and almost everywhere in the game proves that they have severe problems on the programming side as well as on the side of project management.
We should take notice, that they are just not able to meet their deadlines. They just cannot do it. They lack the ability to do it. That's the very poor truth.
I am playing the game, because there are some very good basic ideas in it, like culture, ressources, UU's and the very basic concept of the building of a civilisation (but the later is not a new concept at all). I for sure don't play it because of the ingenious implementation.
And I will wait, before I buy the next addition to Civ3 or a Civ4.
I am tired of the banana principle: "Let's have them give their money to us, and then perhaps sometime the product may get ripe"
The whole computer industry is based on this principle. We spend our money, and if we are really lucky, maybe at a certain point of time, the product will work in the intended way.
Dear God, we are paying THEIR salaries! It's not them who are doing us a favour! We as customers should learn our lesson!
As it seems to be Tavis who is responsible for that decision, I absolutely agree to his decision and appreciate it!
Nevertheless... In the previous postings a lot of the posters seemed to claim that we as player community have to be thankful for the release of C3C. And after it was so obvious that it was buggy, we additionally had to be thankful that they released patches.
Others state that their are deadlines, and that you cannot make a 100% bugfree game.
But, nobody should forget that some people had to pay good money for this game. Seems to me, that some posters didn't have to pay - at least not their own money.
To make a game bugfree (or to do everything to make it having as less bugs as possible) is not a personal favour of the companies involved in the developing and distribution process, it is the least what the customer is expecting.
The announcement that the final release of the 1.15 patch will last for some additional weeks due to problems with the localization is just an infamy.
Atari obviously has the structures to do such a localization process, since they did it in the past. Most of the localization has already been done, since C3C is available in non-english languages. With some good project management, this task could be done in days, not weeks. Of course, first the patch has to be finalised. I severely doubt that this is the case.
The pure fact that they still have bugs in the game, in the documentation and almost everywhere in the game proves that they have severe problems on the programming side as well as on the side of project management.
We should take notice, that they are just not able to meet their deadlines. They just cannot do it. They lack the ability to do it. That's the very poor truth.
I am playing the game, because there are some very good basic ideas in it, like culture, ressources, UU's and the very basic concept of the building of a civilisation (but the later is not a new concept at all). I for sure don't play it because of the ingenious implementation.
And I will wait, before I buy the next addition to Civ3 or a Civ4.
I am tired of the banana principle: "Let's have them give their money to us, and then perhaps sometime the product may get ripe"
The whole computer industry is based on this principle. We spend our money, and if we are really lucky, maybe at a certain point of time, the product will work in the intended way.
Dear God, we are paying THEIR salaries! It's not them who are doing us a favour! We as customers should learn our lesson!
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