Patch today!

I definitely want Firaxis to fix alliances the right way. But I also think that players need to carefully consider what an alliance is. Since an alliance is a promise to join the ally in all their wars, the player should carefully consider if that is something they are willing to risk. Washington warned against tangled alliances that would drag the US into foreign wars. Personally, even with alliances fixed, I think players should only have 1 AI ally. That way they are not dragged into too many wars they don't want to be involved in.

The trouble with that line of thinking is that it runs counter-intuitive to the new diplomatic system. The game very much encourages you to push your relationship all the way up to Allied, both by sending you positive messages to reflect respect rising, and by making agreements better as your relationship improves. Players get the very strong message that it is in their best interests to work hard on getting their respect up to gain and maintain Alliances with as many trading partners as possible.

And yet it's never communicated to the player that they'll be automatically sucked into war if someone DOWs their new ally. Co-operating contains no such clause; the AI doesn't even ask for help anymore (since they can't). There's no reason for a player to expect that Allied status will carry any downside; the game encourages them to think that it will be all positives. Finding out otherwise is a rude awakening, and the reason why in my second playthrough I avoided making allies completely, since I didn't want to lose trading partners. This worked phenomenally well, since I went through the entire game without once being attacked. On Soyuz.
 
And yet it's never communicated to the player that they'll be automatically sucked into war if someone DOWs their new ally.

Yes, it is. The tooltip when you hover over "allied" states that " If one faction goes to war, the other faction automatically goes to war". I think that is pretty clear.

But even if you don't look at the tooltip, intuitively, most people know what an alliance means. I find it hard to believe that you would join an alliance and not expect to have to help your ally in a war.
 
So, I was just pleasantly surprised in my game.

I'm wrapping up my first game and going for Domination. (Which, I'll admit, is slightly more challenging just because of the fact that I can't peace out conveniently and I have to keep a sizeable force at each capital to guard it -- luckily, the AI, even on Apollo doesn't seem to know how to mass troops and use them, haha.)

Anyway... I setup near all my remaining allies to snipe them all at once to end things. The three of them have a decent army surrounding their capitals so it should be fun. Also, none of them told me to back off or to declare war already since I'm massing near their capital; disappointing. Though, I took a huge drop in respect from the ARC when I launched a satellite not too far from her capital to support my raiders; that was nice to see.

When I declared war on my ally, Hutama, who has an alliance with my ally, Arshia, they both declared war on me; sweet! I'm glad it worked out that way. Okay, back to slaughtering them.
 
So, I was just pleasantly surprised in my game.

I'm wrapping up my first game and going for Domination. (Which, I'll admit, is slightly more challenging just because of the fact that I can't peace out conveniently and I have to keep a sizeable force at each capital to guard it -- luckily, the AI, even on Apollo doesn't seem to know how to mass troops and use them, haha.)

Anyway... I setup near all my remaining allies to snipe them all at once to end things. The three of them have a decent army surrounding their capitals so it should be fun. Also, none of them told me to back off or to declare war already since I'm massing near their capital; disappointing. Though, I took a huge drop in respect from the ARC when I launched a satellite not too far from her capital to support my raiders; that was nice to see.

When I declared war on my ally, Hutama, who has an alliance with my ally, Arshia, they both declared war on me; sweet! I'm glad it worked out that way. Okay, back to slaughtering them.

Did they also declare war on each other though?
 
Aren't we always at ourselves with war?
 
Playing as Daoming. I am #1 in score. Barre is #2, about 300 points behind me. I DoW Barre and quickly took his city. Then, I tried to take his capital but did not bring enough artillery so I had to back off. I then attacked his capital again. His capital was doomed. Barre asks me for a white peace. The war score about 300 to 100 in my favor. I say no. I take his capital and immediately ask Barre for peace. Having taken his capital, the war score is now like lopsided big time in my favor and the terms are that Barre must surrender 2 cities to me. I assumed the AI would refuse, given the issues with the war score. But the AI accepted. After the AI accepted, the war score reset to 0-0. When I exited the diplo screen, I had received the 2 cities and was prompted whether to annex or not. The war score worked!!

I hope this link works. Here is my save game. DaomingGame1
 
Playing as Daoming. I am #1 in score. Barre is #2, about 300 points behind me. I DoW Barre and quickly took his city. Then, I tried to take his capital but did not bring enough artillery so I had to back off. I then attacked his capital again. His capital was doomed. Barre asks me for a white peace. The war score about 300 to 100 in my favor. I say no. I take his capital and immediately ask Barre for peace. Having taken his capital, the war score is now like lopsided big time in my favor and the terms are that Barre must surrender 2 cities to me. I assumed the AI would refuse, given the issues with the war score. But the AI accepted. After the AI accepted, the war score reset to 0-0. When I exited the diplo screen, I had received the 2 cities and was prompted whether to annex or not. The war score worked!!
the first tangible result of the Open Beta(*)! :goodjob:

(*) Open Beta of civ:bert started on 9th October 2015.
 
Wait, we're already in beta? Who's the guy who decided we start the beta testing in this state and why isn't he fired yet?!

:p
 
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