Patronage Power

BurnBabyBurn

Warlord
Joined
Aug 23, 2014
Messages
106
Wow, this is a beautiful little gift of a Social Policy I have never opened fully till now. The only switch side of it is if you have a Civ that's a CS~lover.(that can destroy this strategy if they're a runaway) I opened this but couldn't kill Siam(he is at the end of another map on another continent) to stop him manipulating nearly ever CS as an Ally. My culture was out of the roof...nearly worked on opening all of Rationalism(which would have been 3 full Socials) Tradition~Patronage~Then Rationalism but I decided to go Freedom~aim for the foreign legions(overrated)

I wasn't even playing a CS Civ...If I was I could forsee this being on the right map deadly. Of course Venice or Austria someone like (if they get the steam rolling)Siam~Greece could hurt you too...

I am the friend to every CS on a normal Map and allies to 3 was Allies to many more :C till I lost the spearhead on this strategy!
 
This along with Exploration are rarely fully completed, both considered rather weak when completed.
 
I love patronage because of the increased strategic resources late game 50 percentage points of the CS aluminum oil and uranium is a big deal when you control a bucket load of them. I play with fourteen CS on the map so if I control ten I'm a happy camper.
 
Exploration is something I haven't yet touched. My situation in game was a Domination Deity game. You lag in Science. Full on Rationalism gives a lot more.(the CS 50% science return was fair early but lags later) I got the Khan and 20 oil... It is a weaker strategy depending on the the Civ you're playing. Pocatello is someone I have never been good at playing. Their UU is terrible and their great expanse angers every Civ they're adjacent to(you're better off with average tiles that are better placed) Pathfinder is the only thing I love about the Civ at all. However had I chosen China/Babylon/or say a better Civ for war.. I think this strategy is viable


P.S. I also didn't train my CBs/XBs and failed at taking Medieval objectives. Though after that period when you meet every Civ, something I didn't mention, on Deity they really HATE you with Patronage. I intended not to have so many opponents...so you will not get many RAs or friends!(only Japan loved me in the end and we all know Oda only loves you till he can attack you)
This along with Exploration are rarely fully completed, both considered rather weak when completed.
 
exploration is the most situational of all of them

i find patronage to be something of a must later on, at least with the first two policies. at higher difficulties it can be too hard (and expensive) to not get screwed over in world congress without it
 
Patronage is really really good but its main weakness is that Rationalism and Aesthetics are much much better :)
 
Full on Rationalism gives a lot more.

Patronage is really really good but its main weakness is that Rationalism and Aesthetics are much much better

Yeah, I don't think anyone thinks that Patronage is competitive with Rationalism. But My games go long, so I can usually get a whole other tree in addition my opener, full rationalism, plus six in an ideology. Patronage is not bad at all. Nowadays my preference is for Commerce -- but that tree is not usually available as my first spare pick -- so it gets neglected in more than half my games.
 
Each of the individual policies in Patronage are quite weak. SV players sometimes take Scholasticism for a minor boost, but that's all it is, minor. Making gold gifts more effective is quite meh when you could actually use Commerce and/or Ideology to make a lot more gold and have the same effect but more flexible. If the free GP were more often it would be competitive, but they only come like every 20 turns or more. Patronage is flat last in terms of policy trees IMO, even behind Exploration. Some of the hidden antiquity sites can be quite powerful, more so than free GP every 25 turns.
 
Each of the individual policies in Patronage are quite weak. SV players sometimes take Scholasticism for a minor boost, but that's all it is, minor. Making gold gifts more effective is quite meh when you could actually use Commerce and/or Ideology to make a lot more gold and have the same effect but more flexible.

I don't actually disagree, but I actually think most of the SP outside of Rationalism are kind of weak. The SP do very poorly in comparison to ideology tenets. Patronage may be relative weak, but not dramatically so. As compared to Commerce, it unlocks sooner (so most games, this translates to a pick that goes into your ideology instead of being a filler) and Commerce has that terrible blocking policy for extra GMerch generation.

So it seems to me that the choice ends up being (Commerce) vs. (Patronage plus two extra tenets).

If the free GP were more often it would be competitive, but they only come like every 20 turns or more. Patronage is flat last in terms of policy trees IMO, even behind Exploration. Some of the hidden antiquity sites can be quite powerful, more so than free GP every 25 turns.

Coming from someone that values CS, that is fair but harsh criticism. My understanding is that you can game this a good bit by letting CS fall out and then back into ally status. I have not played with that. But if you have a bunch of allies, the GP gifts come like every five turns, so it is quite noticeable. The GP are equally disturbed among all types: GA, GM, GW, GS, GE, GM, GG, MoV, Khan. So ~25% of the time you are getting a Khan or a MoV -- which is pretty fun!

I like the recent observation someone posted to the forum that the Exploration finisher pays for its SP cost in GW. I want to play with that more.
 
Free GP, some of which will be Khan or MoV. What is not to love about Patronage finisher?

Unfortunately GPs from patronage finisher aren't really free as they increase counters.
 
Patronage lately I've only been selecting the +20 friendly status with all civs, and leaving the rest alone for ideologies. Exploration I only completed one time for the achievement.
 
Unfortunately GPs from patronage finisher aren't really free as they increase counters.

Closing out my filler tree is almost always after full rationalism and six in an ideology. So at that point pretty much the only GP that I get are faith purchased. So increasing the counters I do not see as a big deal. But I guess maybe I am not leaving that many turns to get the gifts anyway?
 
No offense, but aren't many people just missing the point? Commerce and aesthetics (which is only for CV, let's be honest) don't become available in time. I don't think you can really compare them. The futurism tenet is also better than patronage but it doesn't really matter, does it? It's patronage or honor or piety.

There's absolutely no contest. Unless you are super-savvy, you are going to have two SP picks before rationalism. What, are you going to open piety? Sheesh. This is a no brainier. Get the first two in patronage and move on.
 
On paper, I agree with your point. In practice it's akin to saying that the Mayan UA is garbage, which most would disagree with.

No, because with Mayan you can choose GPs who don't increase GEMS counter (obviously except first GP - GS);
with patronage finisher you can't choose what you get.
 
The Patronage finisher screwed me up more than once. I was a few turns away from a GrSci and then bam I got an Engi I had absolutely no use for. Welp
 
I tried an experiment twice, one worked out well and one failed miserably. I recommend people try it, especially if you're just looking for a fun, different approach to the game (which I try to do every game.)

When starting a game go to "advanced game setup" (BTW, it's pretty common knowledge but always do this - if you aren't there are many game options you don't know about) Select "allow policy saving." The primary purpose of the option is to allow you to delay selecting a policy until a later turn, and the most applicable use is to delay policy selection until a tree unlocks. Most consider this abuse and cheating because it allows you to go straight from tradition to two or three policies in rationalism; fix this by simply not abusing the ability with the exception of the proposed experiment.

Do not select any policies until you enter the classical era, and then have Patronage be your first policy policy tree. Play the game as usual from there.

For the record, it's not an effective strategy, rather an interesting and different approach to the game. Tradition starts , Liberty starts, and even Piety starts are much more effective strategies, and even Honor starts give you some combat bonuses and GG's to help keep you alive long enough to make up for the error of selecting honor.

It is REALLY HARD to scrap through the ancient era without the assistance that the social policy bonuses give you. I chose Babylon both times to compensate for the extra difficulty.

By doing so, you can appreciate the full value of the patronage tree and particularly the finisher. The problem that I and most of us have is that we use Patronage as a filler tree after completing Tradition (or liberty) and before we can open Rationalism. As such, we then finish Rationalism as well as get the goodies from the ideology before we go back to Patronage, which means far fewer in which we can be gifted great people, and the game is usually decided by then. When you try the experiment, you solve this problem but encounter another: early game you don't have the infrastructure to maintain alliances.

The first game I tried was a failure. I didn't get many quests which allowed for fewer alliances so there were fewer great people. I got a bunch of artist-class great people that I had no slots for and would be wasteful to bulb (GM's with no tourism-per-turn, GW's writing treatises for 200 culture.) Got a khan but had no intention of warring with anyone due to my status. Ended up rage-quitting.

Then I tried another time, which admittedly was on a much better map (salt start.) What made the difference was domino-quests - multiple CS's targeting the same encampment, eliminating that encampment gave a resource which triggered two more quests, alliances giving vision which introduced another CS, etc. IIRC, that game I had 7 or 8 academies before I was in the industrial era (partly due to Babylonian UA but at least two or three gifted great scientists.) Two wonders that were from Great Engineer bulbs, ended up being a successful turn 260ish diplomatic victory.

Again, it's not an effective strategy compared to other options, but a fun and different approach to the game. Also very luck-based, akin to Spain games. But it allows you to utilize a component that you rarely get to.
 
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