performance measure on Deity?

[cracker]

Taxi,

I would not reinvent the wheel but you may be more comfortable with this if you do.

I would not call this a "discovery" as much as an obvious little surprise gift that was instantly apparent with the v1.29 patch.

Here is a link to the discusion thread where the formula is calculated and discussed in some detail:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29485

there is also a utility program that calculates the costs for v1.29 and it can be found at:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38631

I believe that the formula for tech cost will be the same for your v1.21g version except that the "CF" factor in the denominator is always fixed at 10. The counter factor to these human research costs is that in v1.29 the AI research cost factor is always fixed at 10 while in your v1.21g version the AI research cost rate is directly related to the AI cost factor which on deity is 60% of the the regular cost.

I should be carefule to emphasize that all of these cost discussions in this thread should be phrased in a past tense for all Civ3 or PTW players on the PC versions of the software. While we are working to meet your personal needs as you come out of the darkness these discussions could create confusion for other people if we do not remain sensitive to the fact that almost none of the other players outside of the Civ3Mac forum will be facing similar cost issues as you currently encounter.

 

[Taxi Driver]

Actually, I think that I might need this advantage to beat this game the way I hope to beat it (i.e. by conquest).

I'm going to have to capture or destroy at least 100 cities before 2050 AD to score it (possibly more like 150 cities, maybe even 200). And I have to keep any of my rivals from winning the space race, although that will hopefully happen anyway as the result of my conquests.

Are you aware of a 1.29 player beating a huge raging hordes map with max civs on deity via conquest? I've already had a pretty tough time staying #1 in population, #2 in the world, and conquering 2 civs as it is..

Anyway.. the research cost formula threads are very interesting reading. I wish the manual were this explicit about the rules! Er strike that, I wish the manual were softer and more pliant so as to better fulfill its only useful purpose... ::flush::

Thanks,
Taxi

 

[Taxi Driver]

If the same formula is used for both human and AI players, then I don't see how substituting different values in the denominator creates an advantage for the human player.

As far as I can tell from a limited analysis of the formula, the only difference between the two formulas is that tech progresses slower for all players (AI and human) in the 1.29 patch.

Isn't this what's being referred to in this post?:

http://c-evo.org/forum/2002q4/p-1236-1-1.html

"The result was that, with the current rules, all improvements except the library are actually useless. A strategy that does nothing but found cities after cities and build nothing but libraries does not result in a considerable worse progress than any sophisticated city management with aqueducts, cathedrals, universities etc."

If my math is wrong, please explain! I"m not a rocket scientist here.

 

[Cartouche Bee]

TD, I think you will find that others have played huge deity maps with raging barbs, max civs and conquested. The altered tech pace actually can help out on that front, especially on the space ship front and lots of wars.

Good luck.

 

[cracker]

TD,

I'm not going to ignore you here but you will have to work these issues out for yourself. Particularly if you have to go back over things that are 6 to 9 months out of date.

We are working a process in the Civ3 MAC forums on this site that will help all MAC players address these issues and you may be able to contribute positively in that forum if you want to work towards joining the MAC player community that exists here. They can use your help and you can benefit from there perspective.

If we can work to solve these issues for all AMC players in a general way instead of just trying to address single game concerns we will all come out way ahead.

-- cracker

 

[Taxi Driver]

I just want to clarify one thing.

In patch 1.21 tech advancement is faster for all civs than in 1.29. There is no "advantage" enjoyed by the player in particular.

You seem to suggest that having all technology progress faster somehow benefits the player. It's not clear how this could be.. that would be like saying that playing with population growth doubled for all civs would somehow be an advantage for the player.

I mention this because your posts have very pointedly implied that I'm playing an easy, handicapped opponent, while it's not obvious to me how this is so.

.. though I *am* aware of the Commercial civ differences.

edit: bump

 

[Txurce]

Taxi Driver, as a Mac deity player, I have been told by various top-notch players both here at CFC and at Apolyton that researching and buying techs is much easier on 1.21 than on 1.29. These are players who have made a direct comparison as they upgraded from one version to another. I didn't like to hear that my hard-fought deity wins were easier than their 1.29 versions - I prefered to think that they were just different. But in the end... also not being a rocket scientist, or more specifically, someone who knows how to devise or employ those formulas... I grudgingly accepted that all of those players couldn't be wrong in their unanimous opinion on this subject. I'm now trying to contribute to the effort to bring Mac players up to date, and would hope that you would consider it worth your while to do the same.