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Performance on MacOS vs Windows Bootcamp?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Macintosh' started by Nelson Minar, Oct 26, 2016.

  1. Nelson Minar

    Nelson Minar Chieftain

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    Has anyone else compared performance of the game running on MacOS vs Windows on the same machine? I just ran a quick test and the Windows version seems to run about 50% faster.

    Details: I ran at 2560 x 1440 resolution with Medium / Medium settings. 67 ms / frame on the Mac (which is about 15 fps); 46 ms / frame on Windows (22 fps). I have a Mid 2011 iMac with an AMD 6970M 2GB graphics card in it. 16 GB RAM, 3.4 GHz i7 CPU. Running El Capitan on Mac, Windows 7 on Bootcamp.
     
  2. CGPanama

    CGPanama Warlord

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    I can confirm that anecdotally. Although I will still tend to play in MacOS, since I can bounce back and forth on things I am working on (and have to late game as the waiting grows). I ran the benchmark on each, but did not write down the data points. But your numbers seem comparable. I am on an original MBPr (2012), 2.7 i7, 16 GB, Sierra.
     
  3. Virtual Alex

    Virtual Alex King

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    I am very interested in this. I got the game for mac and I am very disappointed at the horrible framerate I am getting 15-10fps depending on game time. I have a late 2013 27'" iMac.

    I am considering doing the whole bootcamp thing but I have never done it before so it might be a pretty huge undertaking for me.
     
  4. mbbcam

    mbbcam Prince

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    I installed Windows 10 using Boot Camp and it wasn't too traumatic. There are lots of YouTube videos showing how to do it. Windows is not nice, however. And make sure you install an anti-virus program -- your Mac may be pretty immune to viruses and other nasties, but your Windows side will not be.
     
  5. Virtual Alex

    Virtual Alex King

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    Well I wont use the windows side for anything except civ so I feel like it should be pretty safe.
     
  6. Virtual Alex

    Virtual Alex King

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    So I installed Win10 bootcamp and civilization but now when I open it I get a "no compatible graphic device" error. How do you get around this?
     
  7. coffee junkie

    coffee junkie Tech Hippie

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    I'm very very interested in answers. I left the civfanatics forum few years ago since modding on civ V was quite impossible on mac and started to mod for other games. So started to do some stuff on windows 7 ( 64 ) via Bootcamp. Windows is not as fun as a Mac indeed but well ;) it is OK for some tasks ... In addition, I bought the Civ V campaign edition on the App Store and NEVER complained about it. Same thing for Beyond Earth and Rising Tides :) But when I read the specs related to Civ 6 ............

    My Mid 2010 27" iMac with an AMD 5750 1GB graphics card is ok to play on the Mac side. The terrain graphics are ... well ... NOT AT All what I got on Civ V but everything is playable. So, if I can get better results both on graphics and speed on Bootcamp, I want to know it ! :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2016
  8. Trilo Byte

    Trilo Byte Chieftain

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    It should absolutely run faster under Windows/Bootcamp on the same machine. It has nothing to do with one OS being better than another, and everything to do with the underlying graphics tech being used. Basically, there are two types of graphics tech (also called an API, or application programming interface): low-level an high-level. OpenGL is an example of a high level API, it runs on top of the operating system. On the plus side it's generally considered to be easier to work with (when coding), but on the down side it's slower. Microsoft's DirectX is an example of a low level API, it provides more direct access to the graphics hardware. It can be trickier to work with, but since the program is accessing the hardware directly it tends to be faster.

    For years, Apple has only offered OpenGL support and there just wasn't really any low-level API available. A few years ago, they finally bit the bullet and began development of their own low-level API, called Metal. It first debuted for iOS devices, and encouraged by the performance (as well as developer response) they developed Metal for OSX (now called macOS) in 2015 for the release of El Capitan.

    Currently, Civilization 6 for Mac does not support Metal - but I think that the OS requirement of El Capitan or later signals Aspyr's intent to eventually get there. Compared to the average game that comes and goes in a span of months or even weeks, Civ is a big-budget A-list title that tends to stay a strong seller for years after release. They'll also add to it with downloadable content packs (at least 4, based on the digital deluxe edition) - all that gives Aspyr plenty of incentive to add Metal support. Blizzard did that with World of Warcraft back in July, and it made a huge difference in performance.
     
    Drudy, Oleary and Xyth like this.
  9. coffee junkie

    coffee junkie Tech Hippie

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    Thanks a lot Trilo Byte for your answer.
     
  10. Nelson Minar

    Nelson Minar Chieftain

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    I'm not surprised it's slower on MacOS, just was surprised how much slower it was. In addition to OpenGL's abstraction, I'm guessing the Aspyr port is also working by basically emulating DirectX. That emulation layer has overhead of its own. It would be neat if they could have it render via Metal for some improvement, fingers crossed.

    Would appreciate other folks posting numbers; it's pretty easy if you've got Bootcamp set up already.
     
  11. Virtual Alex

    Virtual Alex King

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    Ok for some reason when I attempted to run it today it worked! I ran the benchmark on Win10 Bootcamp and it ran at 30fps almost the whole time dropping to like 27 once or twice.

    Compared to the OSX version which was 15-10 fps. Much better.
     
  12. MacOSbestOS

    MacOSbestOS Chieftain

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    I decided to spend some time seeing as I have an 'ideal' iMac setup, so here you go!
    Specs;
    Core i7 6700K
    32GB Ram (1887mhz Kingston Hyper X)
    1TB SSD
    M395X 4GB
    MacOS 10.12.1
    Windows 10 Pro using MxDriver 16.10.2

    MacOS;
    MacOS.png

    Windows 10 16.10.2;
    Civ VI 16.10.2.jpg

    Windows 10 16.8.2
    W10.jpg

    Settings;
    Screen Shot 2016-10-29 at 10.11.54 AM.png
    Screen Shot 2016-10-29 at 10.12.03 AM.png



    I wish the in-game benchmark didn't use this convoluted 'latency' based garbage, it clearly stores actual FPS data in a CSV file but I've been unable to determine it's location on the Mac side, unfortunately a spotlight search didn't reveal the supposed names it's giving the file according to the dialog box.
    Subjectively I saw an average of 15 FPS in Mac OS and around 25FPS in the Windows 10 side with the newer drivers
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2016
  13. coffee junkie

    coffee junkie Tech Hippie

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    3000 $ minimum @ Apple Store ... We know this ;) Lucky you ! :D and my next Mac for sure asap ......................
     
  14. MacOSbestOS

    MacOSbestOS Chieftain

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    Based on what they managed to shove into the recent MPB refresh, I'm confident the next refresh of iMacs are going to see big leaps in gaming capability across the board.

    The 5K will obviously see fully-fledged LGA1151 processors with a completely discrete lineup of (probably) polaris based GPUs; I expect that given it's increased thermal capability Apple should be able to easily accommodate AMD's entire lineup, RX480 included.

    21" lineup are going to be a bit tricker, just like now they'll probably be using BGA 45W processors which are slower, but are the only Cpus which offer GT4 level graphics. Apple will hopefully skip over Skylake and go straight to Kabby lake CPU's which look like they'll double the eDram cache of Skylake in a dual-channel configuration and possibly EU/clock speed increases as well.

    Given what we know Iris pro 580 can do with the NUC, it's exciting to say the least.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2016
  15. coffee junkie

    coffee junkie Tech Hippie

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    Many Macs could "live" much longer with appropriate graphic card which has always been a lack of vision of Apple, its weakness point to me.
     
  16. MacOSbestOS

    MacOSbestOS Chieftain

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    It's weakness is expandability, not graphics power. Apple puts more graphics hardware into their entire lineup than most other OEM's do.

    When I bought mine earlier in the year, the only other AIO with comparable GPU horse power was MSI's 6QE, having a 980M was great, but then they went and cheaped out on a 27" 1080p display. What's the point? I just thought it was bit ridiculous to go and blow $2500+ on an AIO with a huge 1080p display.

    Your other options since then are;
    One; the HP Z1G2, which is *almost* perfect, except that HP will void your warranty the moment you decide you want something other than what's on their al la carte sheet, which is filled with Xeon's and Quadros, and it's been discontinued and replaced by the G3 which is now just another flimsy AIO with weak Graphics; I believe the highest end is now a Quadro M2000M with 640 shaders.
    and, Two;
    The Origin Omni, which hits all the right marks, but also happens to cost north of 5K, is currently sold out and cross your fingers you don't have any major problems and have to ship it back too.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2016
  17. coffee junkie

    coffee junkie Tech Hippie

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    I considered one or twice buying a strong PC ... but nah ... I make so many things on a Mac and gaming is probably no more than 15% ... I do not feel the urge indeed. I'didn't fall in love with Civ VI and even my Mac becomes a bit old in regard of the required specifications to play Civ VI, I still do so many things including 2D, 3D and audio/video on my current 27" that I can wait ... a bit ! :D
     

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