Performing a naval landing under fire

Maktaka

Warlord
Joined
Oct 20, 2010
Messages
168
I'm currently finishing up a continents game with some democratically elected atomic bombs before I'm democratically elected leader of the U.N. by the generous and surviving civilizations of the world. However, during this peaceful and democratic exercise, certain nations were in need of some freedom which I was happy to supply. Unfortunately, these nations were on other continents, at which point I ran into a problem: I really can't seem to do an effective naval landing to start conquering cities.

I have naval superiority, that's not a problem. Two or three ships park offshore of the city, shelling the crap out of the city and anything that moves along the shore. They get some kills, wound the city, and eventually it's time to make a full landing of my ground forces. Except, I can't because the city is so well defended (up to and beyond 100 defense with a bunkered artillery during my second expedition) that I can't take it from the water without losing the unit, even when its at 1 HP. Fine, I'll land next to the city, then attack it from land to avoid the penalty. Suddenly I'm surrounded by Mechanized Infantry and Artillery, which promptly blow the crap out of everything that dares to land. I can't even get my first units off the shore line so the next units can land. If I move my ships closer to shore to deal with the enemy units further inland, the artillery starts shelling them, I lose ships, and it turns into a meatgrinder (which is suicide against an AI that can outproduce you).

I finally got around the issue when I kept poking at weaker cities, capturing, liberating, and razing as appropriate, until the other Civ surrendered and gave me every remaining non-capital city (Hiawatha you wuss). This conveniently clumped his entire - and still quite sizable - military into one city's cultural influence when they were expunged from all his other cities, thus the imminent democracy nukes. I still feel like there should have been some way to directly deal with these hardened coastal cities though. I tried for the Amphibious promotion on my city-capturing units to avoid the vulnerable turn sitting on land, but the unit that had it kept getting sniped by Fighters (which was incredibly rage inducing, let me tell you), so I don't know how well that would have actually worked. Was that my best option to dealing with these hardened cities (and I should have grabbed a Missile Cruiser or two to cover the amphibious units), or is there something I could have done to handle the swarms of Mechanized Infantry and Artillery that came crashing in around my landing units?
 
What you're describing sounds like competent AI! Fighters too WTH?!

Before you could just sort of shell them with your ships until everything dies. Maybe they changed it in the recent patch so they actually hide inland.

Anyways, to your question...did you try bringing up a carrier based airforce to soften the ground troops out of range of your ships? Also, there's gotta be a decent beachead on that continent somewhere right? Like someplace out of the way without roads leading to it or something.
 
When it comes to landings, I normally simply just bombard a single city to a pulp and then attack the city directly. Any aircraft carriers? ACs with three bomber units on them can be pretty tough.

But the best way to crack a really tough defender is simply atomic bombing. An AC+3ABs=1 oil and 3 uranium so its a relatively cheap way of clearing a beach to make landings easier. But a lot of times, its just easier to land where the enemy is weakest.
 
They OP said he's ALREADY shelled the city down to 1hp, and still the embarked unit dies attacking it.

Just saying, the promotions may be what it takes to just get over the line.
 
They OP said he's ALREADY shelled the city down to 1hp, and still the embarked unit dies attacking it.

Just saying, the promotions may be what it takes to just get over the line.

Actually, I think he may be lying about getting it down to 1HP. If the city is on open ground, a few shock promos should be more than enough to take a 1HP city even when just landing. If its on the ground, still tough but any unit with just a single drill or shock promo should be able to take that city.

OP, try landing troops on the ground next to the city and THEN attacking from the sea and see if it gives a flanking bonus.
 
Well, I'm of the impression the OP just doesn't have enough total units to take heavily fortified coastal cities backed up by land units.

I found that with enough ships, the enemy shouldn't have enough units alive in the vicinity to be too much trouble.
Especially those range 4 battleships with logistics.

There's always the option of a "cheesy" landing ... drop off a bunch of workers as human shields for your land units.

I refuse to do that, 'cos the AI is already bad enough at naval warfare.
 
...Unfortunately, these nations were on other continents, at which point I ran into a problem: I really can't seem to do an effective naval landing to start conquering cities...

City States as allied landing and RSOI sites have been incredibly useful to me when moving on to the next continent. Were there any left in your game?
 
Well try using some units as a feint.

Get them over on one side of his area and see that they can't draw some of his units away from were you really want to attack.

Also get one of your units on the ground and then bring in your Navy to shell the crap out of the other units.

Expect loses, with the feint attack you should consider them dead their job is to draw units away from another area. If they are still alive after doing that (not very likely) consider that as a bonus.

Use your navy to kill your opponent's units first then shell the city second.

Also if you reveal a City State buy it out from your opponent if you can. They will go to war with you and this will also pull units away from you.
 
No, the cities were absolutely at 1 HP as I had no problem shelling them, the problem was the massive defense rating (over 100 remember). I could attack to do 1 or 2 damage, but I'd receive at least 10 damage in return (this is from the combat estimator). Basically a crap shoot as to who wins, which means a meat grinder, which I really want to avoid.

I made three total landings at various points around the continent. Two resulted in the rapid death of the landing unit before it could move again, one got me the city, but I only "held" it thanks to it being the Ottoman's old capital, and by liberating it I prevented the trio of encroaching Mechanized Infantry (which would have easily recaptured the city) from entering the territory. I thought I'd finally gotten myself a beach landing only to have those blasted fighters and artillery pick off the victorious mech infantry from inside Ottoman territory before he could heal up.

The real problem I was facing was that Hiawatha (and Alexander before him) had buttloads of units to spare, but was annoyingly good at keeping them out of range of the coastline. Sure, I could pick off a unit here, but they were pretty good about moving back from the coast or into forested territory where my naval units (Battleships and Destroyers fully upgraded against land units mind you) had trouble even dealing damage, much less outstripping their healing rate.

It's sounding like the amphibious upgrade was really my only effective choice to actually capture the hardened coastal cities. I suppose that it is acquirable with just the two free upgrades you get with a new unit (from a city with the XP bonus buildings that is) so I won't need to pump some XP somewhere with the unit first, I was just hoping there'd be a better way than requiring one specific upgrade. On the other hand, I don't suppose there would be much point for the promotion's existence if it wasn't this exact scenario.
 
Atomic bombings destroy buildings too though you know.
 
This all sounds fun! However, it will have to stay vicarious fun as my military games on all difficulty levels always finish a long time before the modern or even industrial era.

However, even early conquests sometimes have to make amphibious landings to get past choke points. In those circumstances, what Sainhann said about using units to distract and draw fire is as valid at 100 turns as it is at 400 turns.
 
+1 for suggestions to buy out a coastal CS as a landing zone. Policies like +33% in friendly territory from Tradition, +25% from Order, and Himeji Castle I have found are incredibly helpful in keeping your beached units up. (not sure if all of these count in Allied CS territory, but some do).

If your runaway AI opponent has enslaved all the coastal CS, I go for the D-day method of invasion. Just keep landing units until it sticks :). Some sort of isthmus where you can land your mech infantry in a forest or on a hill and land behind them to beach your rocket artillery has served me well in recent games.

Once you sack a city, annex it and start rush-buying GDRs ^_^
 
If your runaway AI opponent has enslaved all the coastal CS, I go for the D-day method of invasion. Just keep landing units until it sticks :). Some sort of isthmus where you can land your mech infantry in a forest or on a hill and land behind them to beach your rocket artillery has served me well in recent games.

At some point, you have to upgrade from an Operation Overlord mindset straight into an Operation Downfall of thinking.
 
At some point, you have to upgrade from an Operation Overlord mindset straight into an Operation Downfall of thinking.

I don't know about downfall of thinking. D-day was one of the best feints in modern history. It slapped the Germans backwards. But fact of the matter is you're going to have to take some losses at some point.

As a slight digression, odds are if you've conquered your continent and are moving to another in a modern war, you're making 1000GPT + and don't have much better to spend it on than mech infantry to sail the pond.
 
I don't know about downfall of thinking. D-day was one of the best feints in modern history. It slapped the Germans backwards. But fact of the matter is you're going to have to take some losses at some point.

Downfall was going to have a feint and if it had gone down, would have been the single largest amphibious landing in history. The problem is that with Overlord, you're going up against an enemy already slowly crumbling at one front and having to send defenses there. With Downfall, you're about to land on a seriously fortified island filled with units taking advantage of the honor tree promos. You'll take losses but in-game where each loss means maybe a trillion turns in pumping out new units, this is unacceptable. At some point, it's easier to just going the Downfall route and nuke the beach defenders with several atomic bombs and then keep dropping bombs on cities as soon as a new one is pumped out, meanwhile attacking the scattered forces of the enemy's army.

The ABombs end up seriously hurting production which greatly helps you.

As a slight digression, odds are if you've conquered your continent and are moving to another in a modern war, you're making 1000GPT + and don't have much better to spend it on than mech infantry to sail the pond.[/QUOTE]
 
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