Persia!

crdvis16

Emperor
Joined
May 2, 2013
Messages
1,241
Darius I - Achaemenid Legacy
Golden Ages last 50% longer, and 10% of your Gold income (after expenses) is converted into Golden Age Points every turn. During a Golden Age, your Units receive +1 Movement and a +15% Combat Strength bonus.

Immortal, replaces the Spearman.
Special traits: Has more Combat Strength (13 vs. 11). Obsoletes with Gunpowder rather than Steel.

Unique abilities: Starts with the Faster Healing (allows this Unit to heal an additional +10 HP per turn) promotion. Starts with the Armour Plating I (receives a +25% Combat boost when defending) promotion.

Satrap's Court, replaces the Courthouse.
Special traits: Provides 1 Gold and 1 Happiness. Has no Maintenance cost. +1 Gold and +1 Golden Age Points for every 5 Citizens in this City. +1 Gold for each Scientist, Engineer, and Merchant Specialist in this City. Has 1 Merchant Specialist slot. Can be built in any City, including non-Occupied ones.

Common traits: Eliminates extra Unhappiness from an Occupied City (if this City is Occupied).

----------------------------------------------------------

General Thoughts:

It has taken me a few games as Persia to really decide how I think they should be played.

First, the UU is fantastic for an Authority start. You can go Mining->Bronze Working immediately and start pumping out Immortals and very easily tribute any nearby CSs as well as solo barbarian camps and recover HP very quickly afterwards. There aren't a ton of civs with super early melee UUs so those that do have them really should go Authority IMO. Depending on the CSs nearby you can get off to a really strong start with just a modest investment into Immortals and heavy tribute demands.

Also, Immortals are extra fun if you can get to March and back them up with Medic II ranged units behind them. That's +20 bonus HP every turn, so minimum +25HP even in enemy territory. It takes some time to get those promotion combinations together, though. Other promotions that might deserve more focus when playing Persia are Blitz/Logistics. The +1 movement during golden ages UA means that you would be more likely to have the movement points for double attacks with melee mounted or ranged units.

Other than the UU, Persia doesn't have a ton going for it to aid in actual warfare against other civs in the early game. The UA giving +1 movement and +15% combat strength during golden ages is quite a strong military buff but the problem is that golden ages are few and far between in the early game. Also, Immortals are strong units but they don't really shine in conquest- in fact, if they go head to head against other early game UUs they tend to lose out unless you spend a lot of turns fortified and healing. This means your combat using Immortals is somewhat slow as they excel as meatshields but are fairly weak at killing. All of this is to say that it's not necessarily very easy to conquer early game with Persia. Certainly if a neighbor is a weaker early-game civ and is asking to be a victim it can work just fine but I wouldn't expect to have an easy time with more traditionally strong early game civs on the back of just the UU. It might be prudent to wait until your golden ages are rolling in more frequently and you have near constant uptime on your awesome UA before focusing on conquering.

Long-term, I think the victory condition is flexible other than likely being aided by domination/conquering. I typically plan well in advance what victory condition to pursue but with Persia my only plan is to conquer my continent if possible and then pivot to whatever victory condition seems most expedient at that point.

----------------------------------------------------------

Policies:

It should be pretty obvious by now that I am in favor of an Authority start as Persia- again, the early game melee UU just begs to be used for tributing. However, you could just as easily go Tradition or Progress and still tribute to supplement those trees as well, especially in a situation where you are fairly certain you will not be trying to conquer right off the bat. Which is best probably depends on your neighbors, proximity to CSs, and how much room you have for settling cities.

In the Renaissance I think that Artistry is just the obvious choice. You really need as much up-time on your UA as you can get and Artistry will make that happen sooner. Perhaps in the late game the golden age points provided by Artistry will begin to go to waste if you could achieve 100% golden age status without it but the benefits of hitting that constant up-time sooner is worth it I believe.

For both the Industrial Age trees and Ideology the choice will simply depend on the state of the game at that point. If you have further conquering to do or want to capitalize on your successful conquering up to that point then Imperialism/Autocracy could make a lot of sense but I could certainly see the case for other trees/ideologies depending on the situation.

----------------------------------------------------------

Religion:

As is often the case with Authority, it might make more sense to conquer a religion rather than attempt to found one yourself. I find that I have precious few hammers to spare in the early game with Authority and being able to de-prioritize shrines means I am getting settlers or Immortals out faster. I especially like to go monument first in my capital as the sooner I open Authority the sooner my warriors/Immortals start getting their bonuses against barbarians and tributing.

However, given the situation I think it could make plenty of sense to found with Persia. If there is a religious CS nearby that you will be bullying then the extra faith you get could make founding much more viable. If your starting lux has faith bonuses or your starting terrain has a faith strong pantheon associated with it then I would probably attempt to found myself even if it means a slightly less explosive Authority start.

If founding myself, Divine Inheritance as the founder belief would probably be my default go to (Holy City produces +20% of its yields during a Golden Age). Mosques would be a great Follower belief to grab (+20% Culture in the City during Golden Age).
 
Since Persia tends to go wide, and Divine Inheritance is only in your capital, I would never go for it myself. As you say, Authority is a much more sensible start than Tradition, and Persia's unique infrastructure actually means it has to drop more hammers than any other civ, since it effectively has 1 more building to build than everyone else. The combination of these two things means that a DI Persia's capital doesn't tend to be exceptionally strong. Hero worship's :c5goldenage:GAP on conquest is well-suited to Persia's playstyle; I would consider it one of the better pickups for a warmonger dependent on golden ages.

Surprised you didn't say anything about the obvious Autocracy Ideology synergy with Persia. As the only civ that can build a courthouse in all cities, it gets the most out of Police State.

Regarding your comments on the Immortal, I go Stalwart. As you say, the Immortals excel as meat shields, and combining Stalwart Immortals with medic archers increases the chances I will be able to heal back all damage taken by an immortal in a single turn. Immortals are an effective anvil for your +1:c5moves: move hammers, but I don't rely on my immortal ==>Pikeman ==> Tercio line being highly mobile.
 
Last edited:
Since Persia tends to go wide, and Divine Inheritance is only in your capital, I would never go for it myself. As you say, Authority is a much more sensible start than Tradition, and Persia's unique infrastructure actually means it has to drop more hammers than any other civ, since it effectively has 1 more building to build than everyone else. The combination of these two things means that a DI Persia's capital doesn't tend to be exceptionally strong. Hero worship's :c5goldenage:GAP on conquest is well-suited to Persia's playstyle; I would consider it one of the better pickups for a warmonger dependent on golden ages.

Surprised you didn't say anything about the obvious Autocracy Ideology synergy with Persia. As the only civ that can build a courthouse in all cities, it gets the most out of Police State.

Regarding your comments on the Immortal, I go Stalwart. As you say, the Immortals excel as meat shields, and combining Stalwart Immortals with medic archers increases the chances I will be able to heal back all damage taken by an immortal in a single turn. Immortals are an effective anvil for your +1:c5moves: move hammers, but I don't rely on my immortal ==>Pikeman ==> Tercio line being highly mobile.

All good points!
 
Imperialism boosts building production in all of you cities as your unique building is a courthouse replacement which synergizes progress very strongly.
 
I happen to be playing Persia right now. Still in early game. I was considering making a photojournal out of it.

The Immortals are built for the March promotion. The +10 HP when healing synergy should be self-explanatory, and the +25% defense promotion helps cover up the biggest weakness of March: the -15% defense. I stacked it with Goddess of Protection in a Statue of Zeus rush (Immortals tributing Mercantile CS'es helps accomplish this). That means +35 HP healed in friendly territory every turn, +45 with a Medic I-II unit! That's insane.
 
In case it's useful, I am more and more convinced that delaying conquest with Persia until you have higher GA uptime is the best option. In the first few games I played I tried to start my conquest as soon as I got a handful of Immortals out as I assumed my UU power spike was my best opportunity. My early game wars were typically not all that successful and committing so heavily to those wars left me behind in infrastructure, tech, and culture with not much more than a city or two to show for it. Even if I weakened a neighbor there were always a few other civs happily running away and I was left trying to play catchup.

In my current game I focused more on tributing as much as possible in the early game while my cities worked on infrastructure. I only built as much military as I needed to keep tributing the 4 or so nearby CSs and feel safe from invasion. Heavy tribute is really really strong in the early game and it can be difficult to tribute AND fight a war. Rather than reach for later military techs ASAP I chose to hit the top of the tech tree more often for culture and science, too.

Upon entering the mid game I was competitive in techs and policies and in a much better position to conquer. It's at this time that you start getting your GAs rolling as well (Satraps and Artistry). I wasn't able to get Chichen Itza, Notre Dame, or Taj Mahal but I think I might already be close to 100% GA uptime anyway. The extra movement during GAs is a much stronger power spike for Persia than a little extra CS Immortals have over enemy spearmen. My wars now are much more successful and less costly and after I conquer I will be in a much better state to consolidate before attacking my next victim.
 
It sounds like you had a poor warmongering start more than anything. I've recently had very strong Ancient/Classic era warmongering starts with Greece/Byzantium recently, and Persia during a GA should be far stronger than either. I'm guessing either you had a really bad situation for it or maybe need to practice Ancient/early Classical war rushes. You should be able to grab heavy tributes on the side while crippling your neighbor, and successful early wars with Authority give you enough bonuses to stay afloat until you get to Medieval for vassalage.
 
It sounds like you had a poor warmongering start more than anything. I've recently had very strong Ancient/Classic era warmongering starts with Greece/Byzantium recently, and Persia during a GA should be far stronger than either. I'm guessing either you had a really bad situation for it or maybe need to practice Ancient/early Classical war rushes. You should be able to grab heavy tributes on the side while crippling your neighbor, and successful early wars with Authority give you enough bonuses to stay afloat until you get to Medieval for vassalage.

It could definitely be situational. I know the rather unsuccessful early warmonger game I had right before my current game probably had a lot to do with it just not being a great setup. I was on a continent with Greece and China (me in the North, Greece in the middle, China in the South). So my only real target for warfare was Greece, which means my Immortals are going against Hoplites. I manage to win the wars anyway and eventually vassalize Greece (though it was by no means a cake walk) but in the meantime China has been free to run away and is something like 8 techs and 4-5 policies ahead. Investing so much in fighting a difficult war left me without the infrastructure in place to really catch up and going to war against China at that point was probably futile- her units were generally an upgrade ahead of mine.

I think in that game the better strategy would have been to tribute non-stop, get my infrastructure in place, and then get aggressive once my GAs are giving me the military advantage to make the wars less costly.

Now, if the setup had me starting next to an easier early game target (basically any civ without an early game advantage or UU) then I could definitely see an Immortal rush working out just fine. An easier war is much more likely to put you ahead of the rest of the civs because you're probably just taking cities with minimal losses to units, trade routes/tiles, happiness, etc.

I don't think you can really rely on timing your first GA to your Immortal rush, though. There are times when your early game war must happen NOW because the city you plan to attack will get walls up soon or you want to strike while it's Immortals vs warriors rather than spearmen. If your GA is 20 turns away you can't just sit around waiting for it to pop before you move in. So I think any early game wars as Persia will likely not be benefiting from your GA UA and will have to be carried by Immortals.

Also, I really don't think it's realistic to maximally tribute while also fighting early wars. CSs are often located far away from your military target so you are most definitely trading away tributes in order to attack a neighbor unless you just have a perfect setup for CS locations. I think there are times when the early war can pay off more and other times when tributing until you get your golden ages in order is the better play. After playing a bunch of starts I'm really leaning toward the "bide your time" strategy being the more generally successful one.
 
I feel the higher you go in diff the more niche immortals are.
And I really just want a handful (max) to upgrade -> pike -> tercio.
Extra golden age length is nice but "and 10% of your Gold income (after expenses) is converted into Golden Age Points every turn." sounds negligable?
I mean a 100gpt -> 10gap or you can work 5 jade tiles.
Or can you get something out of a full gold religion like commerce+tithe+cathedral?
 
Well GAP are harder to get a lot of than gold. Late game, you can really get a huge amount of gold income with industry or some corporations. So there is potential to get a very significant amount of GAP. However I haven't tried Persia myself so I can't say whether this is actually any good.
 
I feel the higher you go in diff the more niche immortals are.
And I really just want a handful (max) to upgrade -> pike -> tercio.
Extra golden age length is nice but "and 10% of your Gold income (after expenses) is converted into Golden Age Points every turn." sounds negligable?
I mean a 100gpt -> 10gap or you can work 5 jade tiles.
Or can you get something out of a full gold religion like commerce+tithe+cathedral?
I think (but I'm not 100% sure) that it is about gross gold income, before expenses. It is a pretty good source of GAP, a pretty big empire can have thousands of gold per turn. You won't get jade every game.
 
I think (but I'm not 100% sure) that it is about gross gold income, before expenses. It is a pretty good source of GAP, a pretty big empire can have thousands of gold per turn. You won't get jade every game.

My quote was from the wiki which says after expenses, I'm not sure if it's correct but often is.
Edit: before expenses well that makes it useful to go for gold religion.
 
Back
Top Bottom