Persian Immortals should replace Spearmen.

Reddington

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Nov 24, 2005
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The Unique Persian unit, the Immortals, replaces the Chariot. Historically the Persian immortals were heavy spearmen. I found a nice summary of the Immortals on Wikipedia.com.


Persian Immortals were a Persian elite Royal Guard regiment during the Greek-Persian Wars.

The term Immortals comes from Herodotus who called them either Ten Thousand or Athanatoi (lit. immortals). Persians themselves probably did not use the term — Herodotus may have used a corruption of a term anusiya (companions).

Herodotus tells that Immortals were heavy infantry lead by Hydarnes that was kept constantly in strength of exactly 10,000 men — every killed, seriously wounded or sick member was immediately replaced with a new one. The regiment accepted only Median or Persian applicants.

Their weapons were a leather and wicker shield, a short spear with an iron point and a counterbalance on the other end, a bow with cane arrows, a quiver for them and a dagger or short sword. The regiment's uniform consisted of a tiara or soft felt cap, an embroidered long-sleeved tunic, trousers, and a coat of mail. Their usual tactics involved a front rank charge at the enemy while the rear flanks shot arrows to support the assault.

The regiment was followed by a wagon train of covered carriages, camels and mules that transported their women and servants and they received special food. Immortals participated in the battles of Marathon and Thermopylae and were in the Persian occupation troops in Greece in 479 BC under Mardonius. Alexander the Great defeated them in the Battle of Issus in 333 BC.


So why do Immortals replace Chariots in Civ 4? They may have made it this way for balance reasons because they even describe Immortals as ancient heavy infantry in the civilopedia. Maybe they'll change it in a patch/expansion. *shrug*
 
indeed, the immortals were not cavalrymen, even though the Persian army did employ a massive army of cavalrymen. but even then they were support troops, sort of harrasing the enemy. they were relied on heavily during the sasanian reign, were the heavy cataphracts were used extensively ( and they did defeat the romans many time,and really i like to see that shown on history channel, :crazyeye: i mean propaganda channel!!)

here is my suggestion for the immortals

since they were archers, swordsmen, and spearmen packed into one, i think they must of the melee class.

perhaps a swordsman, of the strength value of 6, with the following features
.extra city strike (+20%instead of the regular +10%)
.or (more likely) 1-2 first strike to employ the archer tactic.
. the spearmen trait is a tricky one in civ 4, unlike civ 3 where the pike group was a defensive one, here in civ4 they are anti mounted. and since the immortals were not really utilized as such (neither were the Phalanx!)
they should simply be the swordsman type + the archer flavor.

p.s get rid of the turban please. they were persians!!!:)
 
Well, then there's the case where the phalanx would not be able to defeat immortals... as far as I recall the ancient greeks had an extremely good track record versus the persian armies.
 
Luhh said:
Well, then there's the case where the phalanx would not be able to defeat immortals... as far as I recall the ancient greeks had an extremely good track record versus the persian armies.

true, but the changing of the immortals ties into the changing of the phalanx.
the phalanx were the equivalent of the modern Rangers( i am specifically thinking of the spartans). their training was superb, and done in harsh climate, i.e. the mountains of Greece. so instead of the Anti-Mounted trait given to the phalanx, they should also be melee, with strength 6, 25% againts other melees, and immune to first strike (perhaps, since they were heavily armored). they could also get 25% hill defense (truely greek!!):cool:

ps the traits i suggested for the phalanx are the neutralizing when compared to the immortals' traits suggested. their immunity will cross out the 1st strike of the persian, and 25% vs. melee would make them superior to the immortals.
 
sorry about the double post, but i just saw this, I agree with shahreevar's turban comment 100%. seeing that really put me off :(
 
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