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[GS] Phoenicia Uniques Predictions

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Ziad, Jan 25, 2019.

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What will Phoenicia's uniques include?

  1. Gold and Production from trade routes, districts, or luxury resources

    37 vote(s)
    25.0%
  2. Science from trade routes, districts, or luxury resources

    51 vote(s)
    34.5%
  3. Diplomatic favor from trade routes, districts, or luxury resources

    29 vote(s)
    19.6%
  4. Heavy coastal bias with unique propensity to settle on coast. Maybe even mandatory.

    88 vote(s)
    59.5%
  5. Cothon will be a unique city center that essentially replaces Harbor

    22 vote(s)
    14.9%
  6. Cothon will be a Harbor or Canal replacement

    100 vote(s)
    67.6%
  7. Unique Elephant with offensive bonuses

    25 vote(s)
    16.9%
  8. Unique Trireme with possible coastal settling or exploration bonuses

    75 vote(s)
    50.7%
  9. Reduction to gold and/or faith costs of purchasing units

    13 vote(s)
    8.8%
  10. Other

    16 vote(s)
    10.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. PhoenicianGold

    PhoenicianGold Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Again, Carthage and Athens were but one highly influential city state. And perhaps in the past, Carthage and Venice were considered powerful enough to be their own civ.

    But VI is a different beast. It is representing cultures rather than empires. Carthage is now part of Phoenicia. Greece is now part of Athens. And if Italy is in the game, it will be Italy, not Venice.

    But whereas Phoenicia had but one highly powerful city state to merit the blobbing with a Dido leader. And Greece had two major city states that historically were the focal points of its many leagues, making for a very elegant two leader dichotomy. It would be exceedingly difficult to represent Italy with only one or two leaders/polities.

    Geographically, I guess you could do Lombardy and Two Sardinias and cover most of it. But that would be to the complete ignorance of everything that makes Italy relevant. No Venice. No Florence. No Papal States. Just two underwhelming periods in Italian history. The problem only gets worse with a single leader like Umberto.

    The fact is that Italy at its most relevant wasn't a unified nation. And unlike Greece and Phoenicia which are easily represented as a holistic culture, choosing one Italian city state over another feels disappointing no matter how you slice it. An Italy civ with Venice and Florence leaders without Genoa or Milan or Rome representation feels incomplete. And a modern Italian kingdom feels like it misses the point entirely. Whereas a Greece led by Athens and Sparta still feels like it mostly hits the idea without sacrificing too much.

    I still think you are giving Greece and Phoenicia more credit as city states than the game design necessitates. Spain doesn't need to be Castile, Aragon, etc because a single leader works. We don't mind that the heptarchy is not represented because England spent a good deal of time as a unified culture. Same with Germany and France.
    I grant that Phoenicia has room for a second Tyrian leader to emphasize two periods of growth in its history and its influence in both the east and west, I just do not see the mechanical/flavorful problems present in a consolidated Phoenicia that would plague a consolidated Italy. Phoenicia can get by within the current level of complexity. Italy would need more work and the city state idea seems to be the direction it would lean.
     
    Metecury likes this.
  2. Phrozen

    Phrozen Chieftain

    Joined:
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    There was both the Italic and Lombard league though they were relatively short lived and not all major cities were a part of the leagues and some even opposed them.
     
  3. Ziad

    Ziad Warlord

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    I'm so excited to see what they have in store in less than 24 hours.

    I also wonder what their theme will be
     
    PhoenicianGold likes this.
  4. PhoenicianGold

    PhoenicianGold Chieftain

    Joined:
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    I am as well. I have been resentful every week when the hinted civ has been anything other than Phoenicia or Eleanor.

    But now, my time has come. Firaxis has no other options. I shall be appeased.

    At this point, I am getting more hyped over new civs than returning civs. We knew Inca and Ottomans and Mali would be great fun regardless of how they were designed. But Hungary and Canada and Maori are far better and more unique than anything I anticipated. I think Phoenicia will not disappoint. I tend to prefer settling coastal cities despite the inefficiency, and since the Dutch are so situational so far I've only had Indonesia supporting that playstyle.
     
    Zaarin and Ziad like this.
  5. Isengardtom

    Isengardtom Chieftain

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    I agree
    Since my last Indonesia game I’ve become a big fan of coastal civs
     
    George Abitbol and Ondolindë like this.
  6. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Warlord

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    I confess, even though Civ VI 'shortchanges' coastal cities ( or has in the past, GS may change that dramatically) I have always felt a little 'cheated' if I couldn't find a coastal spot for at least my second or third city, regardless of what Civ I'm playing (and if I don't get a coastal start for the first city when playing England, Norway, Indonesia or Spain, I restart!). Something about having access to the Ocean that just feels right for what one hopes will eventually be a World-Girdling Civilization.

    Of course, when I'm playing Aztecs or Sumer, playing a bunch of coastal cities requires that I ignore anything resembling Historical Reality: Mighty Sumerian Fleet never appeared in any historical or archeological text anywhere!
    All of which means I am very interested in what Phoenicia looks like tomorrow. . .
     
  7. Ziad

    Ziad Warlord

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    I used the coastal improvement mod which adds some food to the city center per nearby coast and additional yields with harbor buildings. Made coastal settling a lot more viable and fun.

    I'll probably remove it with the GS changes.
     
  8. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Warlord

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    I've never felt that coastal cities needed Buffing, although I appear to be in the minority in that opinion, With any coastal resources at all (fish, crabs, pearls, etc) you can generally get enough food to grow, and once you have a Harbor and adjacent Commercial District (which is almost always my choice pairing in a coastal city) you can generate a nice flow of Gold and Great Admirals, to keep your Naval/Oceanic benefits rolling in. So far, with the buffing of Sea Trade in GS, it looks like I'll be searching out Coastal Starts and City Sites even more . . .
     
  9. acluewithout

    acluewithout Warlord

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    If Venice makes a comeback, I really hope it is part of an Italian Civ - perhaps by having Venice be implemented via an alt leader for Italy.

    My hope is that Italy / Venice would be in a third expansion perhaps as part of an update of how City States work.


    Very excited about Phoenicia. Very excited about the new Civs generally. Very excited that some of the new mechanics may update the old Civs too. We’re going to have a really good mix of factions.

    Man. I love coastal cities.
     
  10. Prester John 2

    Prester John 2 Chieftain

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    "If Venice makes a comeback, I really hope it is part of an Italian Civ - perhaps by having Venice be implemented via an alt leader for Italy.

    My hope is that Italy / Venice would be in a third expansion perhaps as part of an update of how City States work."

    That would be a truly revolutionary civ concept: Start as a city state, unite other city states under a league and pool certain ressources (gold, faith, science). The other CS still retain some autonomy but you can use part of their ressources (much like suzerainity, where you get hammer subsidy for building units in your district). If you capture other cities they are turned into city states.
     
    HanNorwood likes this.
  11. bite

    bite Unoffical Civilization Geographer Moderator

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    Well there is only a couple more hours left to sneak in your idea and see if you are right or not
     
    Prester John 2 and Ziad like this.
  12. Navelgazer

    Navelgazer Chieftain

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    Well, even if it's not the most likely, I like the idea of a coastal settling restriction + Cothon being a city center replacement district that also acts as a harbor too much not to throw in with it.

    But I also expect some diplomatic favor tied to luxuries, hopefully with the bonus going up if you have a monopoly on said resource.
     
  13. Ziad

    Ziad Warlord

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    ~90 mins left. Hype!
     
    WillowBrook likes this.

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