Again, Carthage and Athens were but one highly influential city state. And perhaps in the past, Carthage and Venice were considered powerful enough to be their own civ. But VI is a different beast. It is representing cultures rather than empires. Carthage is now part of Phoenicia. Greece is now part of Athens. And if Italy is in the game, it will be Italy, not Venice. But whereas Phoenicia had but one highly powerful city state to merit the blobbing with a Dido leader. And Greece had two major city states that historically were the focal points of its many leagues, making for a very elegant two leader dichotomy. It would be exceedingly difficult to represent Italy with only one or two leaders/polities. Geographically, I guess you could do Lombardy and Two Sardinias and cover most of it. But that would be to the complete ignorance of everything that makes Italy relevant. No Venice. No Florence. No Papal States. Just two underwhelming periods in Italian history. The problem only gets worse with a single leader like Umberto. The fact is that Italy at its most relevant wasn't a unified nation. And unlike Greece and Phoenicia which are easily represented as a holistic culture, choosing one Italian city state over another feels disappointing no matter how you slice it. An Italy civ with Venice and Florence leaders without Genoa or Milan or Rome representation feels incomplete. And a modern Italian kingdom feels like it misses the point entirely. Whereas a Greece led by Athens and Sparta still feels like it mostly hits the idea without sacrificing too much. I still think you are giving Greece and Phoenicia more credit as city states than the game design necessitates. Spain doesn't need to be Castile, Aragon, etc because a single leader works. We don't mind that the heptarchy is not represented because England spent a good deal of time as a unified culture. Same with Germany and France. I grant that Phoenicia has room for a second Tyrian leader to emphasize two periods of growth in its history and its influence in both the east and west, I just do not see the mechanical/flavorful problems present in a consolidated Phoenicia that would plague a consolidated Italy. Phoenicia can get by within the current level of complexity. Italy would need more work and the city state idea seems to be the direction it would lean.