Pillaging Barbarians

[Fluphen Azine]

Spoiler War with little Pillaging Opportunity :

11 Cities, 1 Settler out, Normal Classical, Mon Golden Medieval.
Possible Pyramids in 5 turns.
Some troops at level 3 and One X-Bow at Level 4.

I've been playing a lot of Civ VI lately trying to get better.
Usually I play Pangaea, Deity, All Random Civs, Standard Settings, Low Sea and Disaster 2.
I got Persia this game and I didn't have much time to do anything I wanted.
I had 4 Barb Camps nearby but I only cleared one as the CS's got 2 and Swedish Fish got the other.
So I had some Barb issues at first and Kristina decided to attack me.
I got out my second city because of Religious Settlements and she got a couple chariots to take it down.
I took it back a few turns later and I slowly gained ground.
I had some nice jungle and hills to post some archers with warriors fortified.
I had a scout in the mix for support bonus.
It all worked out pretty good as I defeated her on turn 104 and got out a few settlers during the war.
Gold was an issue and still is compared to a more peaceful start.

The point is when I was marching in her land it was all pillaged by barbs or unimproved.
Has anyone had this problem?
Here I am trying to get boosted with Pillaging only to get nothing but Air.
She also built a good amount of Catapults.

Another issue is I feel way behind.
Turn 104 and all I have is 29spt, 34cpt, 26gpt... the other stats I'm not as concerned about.
I just feel like the spt and cpt are wrong and should be higher at this point?

Am I supposed to turtle from here and expand through more settlers or take out CS's onto the Ottomans who look to have more of a defense?
I am trying to move Magnus around and get more builders to chop most everything down this game.

 

[TomKQT]

Part of it could be caused by storms - those can pillage and even remove improvements on quite a large area of the map.

 

[Basajaun]

Lately, yes. Every game where Im not fighting endless waves of barbs for the first 150 turns, the AI is. Or rather, getting trashed by them, unless they have a good start or some extra/unique units that they are putting to good use against barbs.
Ive had what you say happen countless times too, and my last game even, it took me double the time and a couple more units dead than I expected to take a city. While I made approach from the north, a barb camp was spawning units from the south nonstop, and they were coming all for me while the archer in London was watching all the mess around it. I retreated to see if they would attack and wear the city instead, but they would still come after me and support Eleanors defense.
It could be a natural disaster, but its totally possible its the barbs too. they are absolutely crazy, and, after watching some games on autoplay, I can draw a conclussion.

Barbs need to be better adjusted to gamespeed and difficulty. They are mostly a non issue for an AI with a big stick agenda, or some other Ai with good combat synergies on higher difficulties. Saving exceptions with unlucky start spots, like, I have seen them burn one of Nubias citys to the ground while she already had 5 pitatis running around, in deity. For any other AI, difficulty level, or slower game speeds, barbs can outnumber (and outmaneuver) AI's with ease, and can be a big problem, pillaging improvements, stealing workers and settlers, and just razing full cities.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

Part of it could be caused by storms - those can pillage and even remove improvements on quite a large area of the map.

I forgot this could happen!
The unimproved land is disappointing though too when you are hoping to pillage.
I guess it is a give and take.
I only got to pillage a couple farms which helps but I did get her whole empire.

It could be a natural disaster, but its totally possible its the barbs too. they are absolutely crazy, and, after watching some games on autoplay, I can draw a conclussion.

Probably a Combination but I know Barbs were attacking her endlessly from the south.
I had to basically kill them as well.
I am sure we have all been there.
I just can't take down Civs with the great speed I see others do it.
I know that taking a Civ down in 10 turns or less is key to finish faster.

It seems I still fall into the trap of building too much.
I keep thinking I need a Com Hub, Market, Campus, Library and University in every city.
I think the next game I need to go heavier on military units and not worry so much about Science.

 

[bengalryan9]

Lately, yes. Every game where Im not fighting endless waves of barbs for the first 150 turns, the AI is. Or rather, getting trashed by them, unless they have a good start or some extra/unique units that they are putting to good use against barbs.
Ive had what you say happen countless times too, and my last game even, it took me double the time and a couple more units dead than I expected to take a city. While I made approach from the north, a barb camp was spawning units from the south nonstop, and they were coming all for me while the archer in London was watching all the mess around it. I retreated to see if they would attack and wear the city instead, but they would still come after me and support Eleanors defense.
It could be a natural disaster, but its totally possible its the barbs too. they are absolutely crazy, and, after watching some games on autoplay, I can draw a conclussion.

Barbs need to be better adjusted to gamespeed and difficulty. They are mostly a non issue for an AI with a big stick agenda, or some other Ai with good combat synergies on higher difficulties. Saving exceptions with unlucky start spots, like, I have seen them burn one of Nubias citys to the ground while she already had 5 pitatis running around, in deity. For any other AI, difficulty level, or slower game speeds, barbs can outnumber (and outmaneuver) AI's with ease, and can be a big problem, pillaging improvements, stealing workers and settlers, and just razing full cities.

The amount of units that spawn out of a camp if a scout gets back to it is pretty stupid IMO. I don't know why Firaxis thought having 8 units spawn on your borders in the ancient era was fun or fair, and all it takes is some bad luck with a camp spawn (especially early on when you might only have 3-4 units, none of who can catch up with a scout if they're not already in the way) to cause it. And this can happen multiple times if you're really unlucky! Can't say I'm surprised that the AI struggles to deal with them even with all its bonuses on higher levels. It's complete overkill IMO.

...and what sucks about it even more is that even if you do manage to fight off a barbarian raid, you get virtually nothing for it because the XP you can get from them is capped so low. Makes healing when fighting off hoards of barbarians a pain.

Having city states nearby is a huge help.

 

[Basajaun]

The amount of units that spawn out of a camp if a scout gets back to it is pretty stupid IMO. I don't know why Firaxis thought having 8 units spawn on your borders in the ancient era was fun or fair, and all it takes is some bad luck with a camp spawn (especially early on when you might only have 3-4 units, none of who can catch up with a scout if they're not already in the way) to cause it. And this can happen multiple times if you're really unlucky! Can't say I'm surprised that the AI struggles to deal with them even with all its bonuses on higher levels. It's complete overkill IMO.

...and what sucks about it even more is that even if you do manage to fight off a barbarian raid, you get virtually nothing for it because the XP you can get from them is capped so low. Makes healing when fighting off hoards of barbarians a pain.

Having city states nearby is a huge help.

Yeah... The scout is one thing, good luck trying to catch it. Most of my games where I spawn in a bit of a remote area (edge of the map, tundra, close to sea, or with bountiful woods and forests) I know its going to be a barb infested nightmare. Losing the starting warrior and the other that I made while they were healing after clearing a barb camp, just because another appeared 2 tiles away in the fog, spawning the scout just by them, is not amusing by my standards. Only to have them come right to my capital after killing both with an endless horde of horsemen and horse archers.
I would be less mad if they gave a reasonable amount of xp for sure. Then again, I wouldnt want to be the person that fights against my troops, who are lvl 3458976 because they are hardened veterans that have been clearing barb camps for the first 4000 years hahah.

 

[tiamats4esgares]

Barbs are crazy on deity. I once had a game where Germany DoWd me while my units were exploring. But I had 2 barbs camps, one of which shot horsemen every turn that protected my towns for me. Quite nice of them. XD it was hilarious to see barbs killing off an entire German army.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

Barbs are crazy on deity. I once had a game where Germany DoWd me while my units were exploring. But I had 2 barbs camps, one of which shot horsemen every turn that protected my towns for me. Quite nice of them. XD it was hilarious to see barbs killing off an entire German army.

I am having a horrible game with the Barbs. Just about a 90 turn war.
I finally killed 3 camps and of course Swords and X-bows rushing me from the South Pole.
I am finding it difficult not to resign or rage quit as my neighbor is gonna be difficult to kill.
Builder First was a Poor Choice this game
Perhaps the Pyramids could of been built somewhere else lol.

Spoiler Turn 95 :

 

[Victoria]

I just feel like the spt and cpt are wrong and should be higher at this point?

not if you have been caught out by Kristina and been barbed.
A limit to your chop also slows things up and I see cities without districts placed, are trying to district discount? This approach can cause issues unless done in a very controlled manner.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

not if you have been caught out by Kristina and been barbed.
A limit to your chop also slows things up and I see cities without districts placed, are trying to district discount? This approach can cause issues unless done in a very controlled manner.

I wasn't trying for discounts this game... this game was basically war from the start.
Most likely trying to wait for gold to buy tiles to place the districts in better spots for adjacency or bonuses.
Also, when I am at war I tend to lose focus and I have a difficult time playing slow.
Not very many chopping opportunities in this game.
Good to know that the spt and cpt aren't too far off from what they should be at this point with wars.

The point to this thread was that many games when I have early war it seems I don't find many tiles to pillage.
Usually Pillaging comes later for me with Heavy Cav and more established Civs.
I find that many times my neighbor is either underdeveloped and or getting pillaged by barbs.
I find that annoying

 

[kb27787]

Pillaging is OP to begin with... I would be all for a mod which disables pillaging giving yields. Let it be a universal 10 HP heal regardless of what was being pillaged.