Piracy and Privateers

[Justy]

Any idea to how this is going to be addressed?

I'd love to barbarian frigates and caravels roaming uncharted waters in addition to those goofy little triremes.

In addition, privateers should be able to be built far earlier in the game. By the time that they're available they're practically useless.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[Ramalhão]

There are already some threads talking about naval forces, privateers and much more in Civ4 - Ideas & Suggestions:
- Hopes for increased naval importance;
- Water is important;
- New sea trade system;
- No more weak battleships!!!.

Feel free to put your ideas in these threads. There's a lot of interesting ideas there, maybe your ideas could already be said by someone there.

 

[minger]

I don't think privateers were a part of history important enough to be seriously in the game; it's eurocentric anyways.

 

[TVA22]

Piracy and pirate ships were by no means a european or atlantic phenomenon. Part of the reason chinese immigrants settled Taiwan so aggressively was because it was a base of pirates from pretty much every asian country, who would raid chinese shipping. Thats why Chinese ships carried such heavy compliments of soldiers, and such heavy armaments of rockets back in the day. (before europeans showed up en masse)

my area of study is mostly asia, so I can't speak on specific examples from other parts of the world, but people are people, so I'm sure pirates existed everywhere.

 

[OLX]

I Would really much more prefer to see a ship like the Steamer that replaces the Galleon in the Industrial Revolution or the Corvette in the Age of Sail.

 

[Wolfwood]

I think one of the most famous female pirates was from Asia - she had a thousand or more ships under her command.

 

[Sickman]

I don't think privateers were a part of history important enough to be seriously in the game; it's eurocentric anyways.

Pirate did pay certain sideshow and at least example influence Dutch, English and French to violently battle against the Spanish in the seas. If not anything else then they at least worked as catalyst for these three arising powers. Especially to English.
We should maybe not forget also who was against the Spanish Armada in Cadiz.
It was the man of true privateering himself, Sir Francis Drake.

Many of things in Civilization aren't that important part of history but they still are in. And yes, it's eurocentric but isn't pretty much whole lot in civilization?

 

[minger]

Pirate did pay certain sideshow and at least example influence Dutch, English and French to violently battle against the Spanish in the seas. If not anything else then they at least worked as catalyst for these three arising powers. Especially to English.
We should maybe not forget also who was against the Spanish Armada in Cadiz.
It was the man of true privateering himself, Sir Francis Drake.

I guess it's more that pirates were only important in a very short span of time, i.e. 2 or maybe 3 centuries. It wouldn't be worth creating a whole separate model of piracy just to make that time period in the game more interesting..

Many of things in Civilization aren't that important part of history but they still are in. And yes, it's eurocentric but isn't pretty much whole lot in civilization?

Unfortunately yes.
I gu

 

[Commander Bello]

Piracy is reported to be still a problem at certain se-asian areas.
It takes even place at the Horn of Africa. So I don't see it at either outdated nor euro-centric.

 

[bkwrm79]

I agree, piracy is far more wide-spread both geographically and in time than is generally realized.

More importantly, I think having more of it would make the game more fun.

 

[henry k c]

Pirates should be able to spawn without a barb camp. That would mean pirates in the late middle/ industrial ages.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Pirates were a HUGE problem for the mariners of both the Minoan and Phoenecian societies, not to mention the coastal raids they suffered from pirates and marauders-and they date back to as early as 2000BC-so it is naive in the extreme to claim that it only occured for a couple of centuries.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[GoodGame]

Pirates raided ancient Egypt, and conquered them for a while.

There are reports that SE Pacific piracy is still alive today.

 

[minger]

I think changing "barbarians" to "pirates" around a certain era would make more sense -- simply incorporate piracy into the barbarian concept. And then in the modern times, they would be "insurgents" or "partisans" or something like that.

 

[eg577]

How about modern day piracy? "Sir, the citizens of Babylon are illegally downloading mp3s! -1 Trade per square!"

 

[general_kill]

How about modern day piracy? "Sir, the citizens of Babylon are illegally downloading mp3s! -1 Trade per square!"

when i read the title at first, i thought it was talking about that kind of piracy.

 

[Gnarfflinger]

There has to be an economic benefit of privateering or at least economic damage to the victim state...

 

[Son_Of_Dido]

I agree, piracy is far more wide-spread both geographically and in time than is generally realized.

More importantly, I think having more of it would make the game more fun.

Exactly. Let's not overlook the simple and obvious fact that Pirates Are Cool. That should be reason enough to leave Privateers in the game and even make them more useful.



Then again, I am of that sort that wants increased naval importance in general.

 

[Wolfwood]

Modern day piracy IS traditional piracy in the sense that there are continuous reports of pirate attacks in Asia even to this day. So, reading this whole thread, it appears that piracy has been present from the very earlierst of cultures to this very date and thus is an important aspect of civilization.

Point in fact:

13.6.2005 at 2100 UTC off Langkawi island, Malacca straits.
Ten pirates armed with weapons in a speedboat hijacked a tanker underway. One crew managed to escape in the boat used by pirates. He landed ashore and contacted marine police at Langkawi island. Police despatched a patrol boat and located the hijacked tanker off Pulau Lebar. Subsequently, pirates surrendered and they were taken to Langkawi for investigations.

12.06.2005 at 0145 UTC at Takoradi anchorage, Ghana.
Three armed robbers boarded a general cargo ship at forecastle. They stole ship’s stores and escaped in a boat. Master informed port control who sent officials to investigate.

07.06.2005 at 2350 LT at Kota Baru anchorage, Indonesia.
Five robbers armed with long knives board a bulk carrier at anchor. They tied up duty A/B. Other crew raised alarm. Robbers stole one life raft and escaped.

07.06.2005 at 2130 UTC at Belawan anchorage, Indonesia.
Six robbers armed with long knives boarded a general cargo ship. Alert crew raised alarm and mustered. Robbers escaped in their speedboat.

07.06.2005 at 0120 LT in position 04:12.3N - 006:57.3E, Bonny River anchorage, Nigeria.
Five robbers armed with machine guns attempted to board a reefer using hooks attached to ropes. Alert A/B raised alarm and crew mustered. Robbers fired several shots and escaped. Bullets hit bulwark but no injuries to crew.

Source: http://www.piratesahoy.net/content/view/589/

 

[searcheagle]

Modern day piracy IS traditional piracy in the sense that there are continuous reports of pirate attacks in Asia even to this day. So, reading this whole thread, it appears that piracy has been present from the very earlierst of cultures to this very date and thus is an important aspect of civilization.

Point in fact:

13.6.2005 at 2100 UTC off Langkawi island, Malacca straits.
Ten pirates armed with weapons in a speedboat hijacked a tanker underway. One crew managed to escape in the boat used by pirates. He landed ashore and contacted marine police at Langkawi island. Police despatched a patrol boat and located the hijacked tanker off Pulau Lebar. Subsequently, pirates surrendered and they were taken to Langkawi for investigations.

12.06.2005 at 0145 UTC at Takoradi anchorage, Ghana.
Three armed robbers boarded a general cargo ship at forecastle. They stole ship’s stores and escaped in a boat. Master informed port control who sent officials to investigate.

07.06.2005 at 2350 LT at Kota Baru anchorage, Indonesia.
Five robbers armed with long knives board a bulk carrier at anchor. They tied up duty A/B. Other crew raised alarm. Robbers stole one life raft and escaped.

07.06.2005 at 2130 UTC at Belawan anchorage, Indonesia.
Six robbers armed with long knives boarded a general cargo ship. Alert crew raised alarm and mustered. Robbers escaped in their speedboat.

07.06.2005 at 0120 LT in position 04:12.3N - 006:57.3E, Bonny River anchorage, Nigeria.
Five robbers armed with machine guns attempted to board a reefer using hooks attached to ropes. Alert A/B raised alarm and crew mustered. Robbers fired several shots and escaped. Bullets hit bulwark but no injuries to crew.

Source: http://www.piratesahoy.net/content/view/589/

I've also heard that most Shipping companies don't even bother to report their loss of cargos. Its just not worth the hassle becuase they would lose productivity to show up at the trial. Instead, they just eat the cost.