Planes and Helicopters

[Stiel]

I’ll start a second threat which may be interesting. Before I’ll give the subject I want to say the following:

I think that the REALLY cool things aren’t shown to us yet, for two reasons:

1. Dan don’t want to set the expectations too high by telling us all.
2. They want to give us a number of surprises. These will only be clear by playing the game.

I’ve noticed that they have told and shown us very little about the planes. In fact I’ve only see one plane at just one screenshot. I think we can expect a rather large variety of planes and helicopters. Because nowadays air units are one of the mayor disciplines of warfare.

Just look how USA deals with war nowadays. They’ll only use planes to destroy military installations and infrastructure (okay special units are also being used like SEALS for laser targeting). Just look at Serbia and Kosovo.

When I play CIV2 I often make use of bombers, helicopters and cruise missiles. These units guarantee a clean and quick war. But with planes alone you couldn’t bring any actual damage to the civilization. You cannot bomb city improvements and infrastructure and these aren’t that important because it didn’t affect trade. I think they have changed the use of air units significantly (air strikes for instance) and this will be so great that they haven’t given us lost of info regarding this subject. In CIV3 it is possible to create mayor damage without occupying any cities (just destroy infrastructure and improvements and the country will be in chaos) this means that planes are an excellent way to disorganize a enemy civilization ( f****,I’m telling my strategy)

I think following units will be included:

- Early fighters (WW I)
- Early fighters and bombers (WW II)
- Bombers and fighters (Vietnam)
- Stealth bombers and fighter (Gulf War)
- Transport planes (for launching paratroopers, these planes fly further than troop helicopters)
- Transport helicopter ( for marines and other foot units)
- Attack helicopters (like the Apache or the Hind-24)
- Cruise missiles and nuclear missiles
- Spy planes, for large distances (probably the satellites do this)
- B 1 bombers for flying deeply into enemy territory, dropping of nuclear missiles.

What I want to know:

1) How important are planes in your strategy
2) Which planes will be included in the game, which not?
3) When will we get more detailed info about planes

I think the game will be GREAT and we all are doomed, because once the game is for sale none of us will longer have a social life!!!!!!

 

[Vinc]

I agree with you!! I really hope planes will be a big part of the strategy, starting on Industrial era! Actually, I think combat jets may be very useful if they go fast. For exemple:

I'm the america, in war with Germans in the Modern era. I have some jets. I make them go through German territory, passing over cities quickly and launching missiles at them. Since the attack starts out of my territory, Germans can't predict when, on wich way and on wich city I attack. Germans wouldn't know where to go, all cities are partly destroyed, and then I hit with my ground force and bombard cities with destroyers and ground units.

Great way to destroy a Civ

 

[DaEezT]

As far as we know those are the current facts abour Air units in Civ3:

Air Missions: Air units have operational ranges within which they can execute air missions. The primary bonus of this is that air units no longer function like super fast ground units.

Airstrikes: Later in the game airstrikes allow a selective destruction of specific buildings.

That would explain why there are no air units on the screen shots.

I think the idea of Air Missions a good one. Even cooler would be defensive options for air units(including missiles). In CTP2 you could set targets for nuclear missiles which they automatically attacked when someone nuked you. That idea could be used for planes and missiles. like: setting your F-15 to defensive makes him unavailable during your turn but when an enemy tries to bombard a target inside it's range it automatically attacks the bomber. Or missiles could try to shoot down incoming nukes.

I somehow expect something like this since else the air units would give little to no defense to the city they are currently in.

I agree with you that they'll have some suprises for us
and i am sure they'll all be good ones

 

[Vinc]

I really like that DaEezT!!

I have a question about Air Missions: can you tell your planes to destroy a specific building in a city (wonder, for example) or even a certain ressource??

Destroying ennemy ressources may be useful (not only with planes), mostly if they don't have much of this ressource, and if you can get it somewhere else... Then, you deal a trade embargo with your allies, and this Civ can't get that ressource.

 

[DaEezT]

I have a question about Air Missions: can you tell your planes to destroy a specific building in a city (wonder, for example) or even a certain ressource??

as far as i know yes(buildings at least).
At least thats what you can read in the info center (i quoted it in the post above)
I assume that Air strikes are an Air Mission...

 

[Heffalump]

See the "New Civ3 Info from PC Gamer UK " topic. You'll be able to target specific buildings with the advent of Smart Weapons.

Aside from spy planes (or satellites) I'm rather indifferent about new air units. From a gameplay perspective the modern era just isn't long enought to fit in all those layers of air units. New capabilities, like being able to target specific buildings, are more interesting. Plus the game is supposed to ship with a fairly robust editor, so anyone can pretty much add units to their heart's delight.

 

[Vinc]

I'm sorry you're right guys! I all read it and I may have forgotten a few things from the info section (wich is long)... For smart weapons, I thought it was only for techs... Sorry!

 

[Monte Pyton]

Originally posted by DaEezT


I think the idea of Air Missions a good one. Even cooler would be defensive options for air units(including missiles). In CTP2 you could set targets for nuclear missiles which they automatically attacked when someone nuked you. That idea could be used for planes and missiles. like: setting your F-15 to defensive makes him unavailable during your turn but when an enemy tries to bombard a target inside it's range it automatically attacks the bomber. Or missiles could try to shoot down incoming nukes.

....just curious, but wouldn't this be something like the 'scrambling' effect that happened when bombers attacked your fighter units in a city (in civ ii)?

 

[Mikoyan]

O.K, these are my ideas for aircraft and gunships.
WWI: Sopwith Camel, Fokker Triplane
WWII: Mustang, Messerschmitt Bf109, B-17, Heinkel He-111
Jet Fighters/Bombers: McDonnel Douglas F-15, MiG-29, B-52,
Tu-16 Badger
Gunships: Apache, Mi-24 Hind
Stealth Fighters/Bombers: YF-22 Raptor, Su-47 Berkut, B-2, Tu-160

 

[Monte Pyton]

although they do need more aerial units, i'm sure that there can be too much. adding about six planes from each and every war would be one of these 'too much' examples. i think that two planes from the world war eras (bomber and fighter), two more from the cold war era (another bomber and fighter), and perhaps three from 'right now' (which would be an advanced stealth bomber and fighter, and super-long range spy plane) would be more than sufficient

[let me explain the spy plane]....in civ 2, you would not be able to see computer units (other than cities) unless you were directly next to them or if they were in range of units that had a veiw of 2 spaces--what i'm getting at is that this spy plane would have a veiw of like 10, would be completely unhindered by zones of control, and would have super long flying range ( perhaps they would have to end their flight in one turn though)

..................oh yeah; and the transport plane (i cant believe it only carries 2!) and i'm still really big on a new "trade plane"

what do you think?

 

[jc011]

transport planes would be a big thing, especially if it can defend itself, but only 2 units??? that's kinda small maybe 4 would be better, trade plane is definetly a thumbs up!

 

[Monte Pyton]

one thing that seems kind of strange though is that as disappointing as this is, trade planes really wont be of much use in carrying units (other than carrying units across water) because they can already travel on the railroads at an infinite rate.

this is kind of off subject, but this is why i think that railroads shouldn't allow units to move as far and wide as they please, but should only multiply their movement rates (like regular roads; and of course, they would take you farther than these regular roads)

of course, i know only as much as everyone else does, and cant tell whether they will really be worth it or not ( even if their not, i'm sure i will use them )

 

[jc011]

Originally posted by Monte Pyton


this is kind of off subject, but this is why i think that railroads shouldn't allow units to move as far and wide as they please, but should only multiply their movement rates (like regular roads; and of course, they would take you farther than these regular roads)

perhaps railroads would only take you 4 spaces per normal turn, for example, an engineer with 2 movements could move 8 on a railroad, UNTIL!!! you develop like a more advanced railroad tech, like the bullet train or something...what do you think??

 

[Monte Pyton]

Yeah, this is what i meant--

--about the bullet train: it just all has to do with how far units can travel on land, compared to by air (in real life), which i know nothing about....just so that the planes aren't completely under-rated

 

[jc011]

yeah i agree, moving all the way across a country or continent without taking any turns too, is an advantage i think should be left to later, cuz the first trains weren't exactly speeding along at 100 mph!!

 

[Mikoyan]

As you maybe understood, my list above are not with aircraft that EVERY civ would be able to build, the western allies should only be able to use: Camel, Mustang, B-17, F-15, B-52, YF-22, B-2 and Apache Etc.:slay:

 

[Aristonico]

I love planes... even outside Civ
I like to develope my airforce before anyone can build a single plane.

The benefits are multiple:
-you can expand the area of terrain that you can see
-you can sentry straits and vulnerable territories in a longer range than with any other unit
-and you can finish those pesky units that are always marauding your borders without almost loses, including barbarians...

The only ones that resist too much (for the first planes) are fanatics and skiers... but just put infront any artillery piece, that I can erase them easy...
HAve fun

 

[Mikoyan]

Flight: Sopwith Camel: English, Americans, French, Russians, Chinese etc.
Fokker Triplane: Germans, Romans, Spanish, Japanese etc.
Advanced Flight: P-51D Mustang and B-17: Same as Camel
Bf-109 and He-111: Same as Triplane
Jet Flight: F-15 and B-52: NATO countries, Japanese etc.
MiG-29 and Tu-16: Russians, Chinese, Egyptians etc.
Stealth: YF-22 and B-2: Same as F-15 and B-52
Su-47 and Tu-160: Same as MiG-29 and Tu-16

See now?

 

[jon26]

Originally posted by Stiel
I think the game will be GREAT and we all are doomed, because once the game is for sale none of us will longer have a social life!!!!!!

I don't care if my social life goes out the window. I've waited so long for this game and now I want to spend hours and hours enjoying it! I'd rather play Civ3 than hang around with my friends, at least the first couple of months after the release.

Look through the day in hand, there's nothing there at all.
Gotta find some therapy (Civ3)... (Joy Division)

Yeah, and I think they'll expand the aerial part of the game kind of like you said it.

 

[Dreadnaught]

Man it's been a long time since I enter these forums. Excuse me if I don't know what to do in this new system.

Anyway, about the topic,
1. there will be a fighter and bomber for each era (exception special units like f-15), these era will be flight; supersonic flight; and stlealth flight.

2. Helos won't be that important. there will probably only be 1 type.

3. There will be no transport planes (that's why they created airlifts)

On another note RR design is a problem that neeeds solving. Roads should have a movemnet factor of 4 and RR - 8. Unlimited movemnet was something I believe they accidentally overlooked in Civ2.