Player stats, sales, and reception speculation thread

[DefinitelyNotSidMeier]

Look pal. We can argue all day if you like.
But look at my compare chart below. Its totally different to yours.

My chart show Civ 6 rising above Civ 5 from about the latter half of 2018 onward
On your chart, you are only looking at a block of about 2 years.
I am looking at the max time for both games.

Have you been following what I've been saying? Can we agree it took a long time for VI to have more players than V?

 

[Lebo44]

Marbozir found this job offer (Head of Product of Civ 7):

Head of Product

Sparks Glencoe, Maryland, United States

job-boards.greenhouse.io

Maybe worth discussing here?

 

[Crashdummy]

Eh. A lot of hyperbole on all sides here.

All games find a floor... But Civ 7 has found a floor which is lower than Civ6's on absolute terms, and about twice as bad on relative terms. Unless the way players consume both games is dramatically different we can say that Civ7 is doing a lot worse than Civ6. And that's not good news.

At the same time that doesn't mean the game is about to die. It has found it's floor, so hopefully that floor is enough that it can go back up. It honestly could be the case that the floor is high enough that Firaxis can support it for a full lifecycle - to give the worst example possible, Everquest is still alive... Though I doubt Firaxis would be happy with that.

Speculatively, I would argue that since incremental changes in recent patches and the DLC have only marginally shifted player counts, that something drastic is probably needed. And the recent changes are undermining ages by promoting snowballing... So... I think there's hope if Firaxis follow the inevitable?

The game will not die before the first Expansion. The release of at least 1 expansion is certain, doesnt matter how many players play. Even Beyond Earth got an expansion

That being said, these are not good numbers, not even close, which is why Firaxis is kind of desperate to make changes that bring more players in the game

 

[Lord Lakely]

Just a reminder that base Civ5 was really bad and Gods & Kings addressed several of the issues (the boredom of the gameplay, the ease at which you could buy units and conquer everything and a few more i cannot recall). The expansion, when it comes, will be a big one.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Marbozir found this job offer (Head of Product of Civ 7):

Head of Product

Sparks Glencoe, Maryland, United States

job-boards.greenhouse.io

Maybe worth discussing here?

Not an existing position, if you go by the game credits.

Job description makes it sound as though the person is charged with figuring out how to sell the game better than it has sold.

To me it says (what the 2K Prez said): that initial sales haven't met expectations. But also that they think that might be changed, and they are adding personnel in a focused attempt to make that change.

This part of the description

leverage market trends, UX research, and player telemetry to uncover insights and identify growth opportunities for the Civilization franchise.

says "go find out what the players want, dangnabbit"!

If this were in the "Long Term" thread, I'd say (as I will say even though it's here) that it seems to me a promising sign that the company doesn't just want to bail because initial numbers aren't good, but wants to continue working on making them better.

 

[Siptah]

Marbozir found this job offer (Head of Product of Civ 7):

Head of Product

Sparks Glencoe, Maryland, United States

job-boards.greenhouse.io

Maybe worth discussing here?

That reads interesting. I hope they find the right person!

 

[Siptah]

Just a reminder that base Civ5 was really bad and Gods & Kings addressed several of the issues (the boredom of the gameplay, the ease at which you could buy units and conquer everything and a few more i cannot recall). The expansion, when it comes, will be a big one.

And that fighting in vanilla when a few archers could take out a giant death robot… argh! I still think that civ V has the best expansions of all civ games. Beyond the Sword was really good as well though. Hopefully, the expansions for 7 are what the ones for 5 were.

 

[Lebo44]

Job description makes it sound as though the person is charged with figuring out how to sell the game better than it has sold.

You're right. It seems to be a a marketing-oriented role with a solid analytical background. Likely to support the developers and guide future development decisions.

 

[Gori the Grey]

And that fighting in vanilla when a few archers could take out a giant death robot

In the early release of Civ V, there was no cap on unit upgrades that you could get from goodie huts, so you could get a pikeman in antiquity, which was quite strong.

Just remembering back.

 

[AD1730]

Not an existing position, if you go by the game credits.

Job description makes it sound as though the person is charged with figuring out how to sell the game better than it has sold.

To me it says (what the 2K Prez said): that initial sales haven't met expectations. But also that they think that might be changed, and they are adding personnel in a focused attempt to make that change.

This part of the description


says "go find out what the players want"!

If this were in the "Long Term" thread, I'd say (as I will say even though it's here) that it seems to me a promising sign that the company doesn't just want to bail because initial numbers aren't good, but wants to continue working on making them better.

It all comes down to whether you can depolarize the fanbase with changes to Civ 7. I don’t think you can. Half of the fans demand removal of civ switching and ages and the other half will demand that you keep them. Ultimately, they need to pick one path and do it the best they can. They placed a self-imposed cap on sales with their design choices for this entry and now they have to live with that, unfortunately.

 

[Gori the Grey]

It all comes down to whether you can depolarize the fanbase with changes to Civ 7. I don’t think you can. Half of the fans demand removal of civ switching and ages and the other half will demand that you keep them. Ultimately, they need to pick one path and do it the best they can. They placed a self-imposed cap on sales with their design choices for this entry and now they have to live with that, unfortunately.

Yeah, I hope the person who takes the job knows what they're getting into.

Anyone who really does fill this part of the description

The ideal candidate must have a deep understanding of and love for Civilization and 4X Grand Strategy gameplay.

will be aware of how 7 has been received so far, so they'll know what they're tasked with achieving.

 

[Crashdummy]

Not an existing position, if you go by the game credits.

Job description makes it sound as though the person is charged with figuring out how to sell the game better than it has sold.

To me it says (what the 2K Prez said): that initial sales haven't met expectations. But also that they think that might be changed, and they are adding personnel in a focused attempt to make that change.

This part of the description


says "go find out what the players want, dangnabbit"!

If this were in the "Long Term" thread, I'd say (as I will say even though it's here) that it seems to me a promising sign that the company doesn't just want to bail because initial numbers aren't good, but wants to continue working on making them better.

The fact that they still dont understand what players want after 6 months worries me a bit

I hope the person they hire goes and tells them to make a freaking sandbox game where you can build a civilization to stand the Test of Time

It all comes down to whether you can depolarize the fanbase with changes to Civ 7. I don’t think you can. Half of the fans demand removal of civ switching and ages and the other half will demand that you keep them. Ultimately, they need to pick one path and do it the best they can. They placed a self-imposed cap on sales with their design choices for this entry and now they have to live with that, unfortunately.

Most of us dont want the removal of anything. We want a Classic Mode, an ALTERNATIVE way to play. They can keep the current mode for those that like it, most of us dont care if they keep it, as long as we can play the game like the franchise was supposed to be played instead of having to play Humankind

 

[Gori the Grey]

The fact that they still dont understand what players want after 6 months worries me a bit

I hope the person they hire goes and tells them to make a freaking sandbox game where you can build a civilization to stand the Test of Time

"player telemetry" should include reading the thoughtful posts on this forum.

And to this specifically:

The fact that they still dont understand what players want after 6 months worries me a bit

I think this position represents a tacit acknowledgment that they didn't do enough player research during development.

 

[Lord Lakely]

And that fighting in vanilla when a few archers could take out a giant death robot… argh! I still think that civ V has the best expansions of all civ games. Beyond the Sword was really good as well though. Hopefully, the expansions for 7 are what the ones for 5 were.

and definitely are NOT what rise & fall was to Civ6.

 

[Crashdummy]

I think this position represents a tacit acknowledgment that they didn't do enough player research during development.

I think we can all agree that was the case. At this point thats a given

To be fair, they wouldnt be the firstd evelopers that dont care about what their players want and some still make great games. Its not t he case here

But after 6 months, they STILL dont have a clue? That is the part that worries me

 

[Haig]

I wonder if it is unique for Civilization series that player count is divided between most of the titles of the series.

Like are there lots of people who haven't moved on from Hearts of Iron 2 or Tekken 3, for example?

I think that should be put into consideration when looking at Civilization 7 numbers.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Marbozir found this job offer (Head of Product of Civ 7):

Head of Product

Sparks Glencoe, Maryland, United States

job-boards.greenhouse.io

Maybe worth discussing here?

Based on the description, I'd say the person could participate in Civ7 expansions, but mostly target Civ8. I don't think the person with such responsibility will be able for meaningful contributions within the first months of the game.

More interesting is why they need this position. Either they lost one person and it would be very interesting to know who, or they add this position and it's interesting as well. In general, game development often works without dedicated product management with their functions performed by game designers and/or producers. Based on the description it looks like the role is squished between Firaxis executive producer and 2K product management with a primary focus on analyzing player data, communities, markets, competition etc. and find growth points.

Surely seems to be fitting to this thread and looks like a reaction to "slow start" and negative reviews. Although it's important that while this role suggest gaining insights on interesting game mechanics from community and competitors, it's not the person who directly affects the gameplay, it's more about processes and communication.

 

[aieeegrunt]

It all comes down to whether you can depolarize the fanbase with changes to Civ 7. I don’t think you can. Half of the fans demand removal of civ switching and ages and the other half will demand that you keep them. Ultimately, they need to pick one path and do it the best they can. They placed a self-imposed cap on sales with their design choices for this entry and now they have to live with that, unfortunately.

The original game doesn’t magically stop working if a Classic mode is added.

"player telemetry" should include reading the thoughtful posts on this forum.

And to this specifically:


I think this position represents a tacit acknowledgment that they didn't do enough player research during development.

I think it’s a tacit acknowledgement that they completely ignored anything even a cursory attempt at player research would have told them

There was an immediate outcry when Humankind mechanics were announced.

Hell the fate of Humankind itself should have clued them in.

I wonder if it is unique for Civilization series that player count is divided between most of the titles of the series.

Like are there lots of people who haven't moved on from Hearts of Iron 2 or Tekken 3, for example?

I think that should be put into consideration when looking at Civilization 7 numbers.

If ever there was a case for the “First Time” meme to be used…

The sturn und drang in the Halo community over literally every single new game makes this look positively tame.

 

[Gori the Grey]

I think it’s a tacit acknowledgement that they completely ignored anything even a cursory attempt at player research would have told them

Well, ok. I try to put things more delicately.

I think we can all agree that was the case. At this point thats a given

Oh, yeah, to us it's a given. But in the corporate world, it can be hard to make this kind of acknowledgment. It's a healthy sign that they are, imho.

 

[AD1730]

The original game doesn’t magically stop working if a Classic mode is added.

I don’t believe they can maintain two systems simultaneously. I believe they must pick a path and go with it.