Playing as Venice.. which CS to puppet?

[DennisI01]

Hey all, playing my first game as Venice, and I am not sure which CS to puppet.. I do not have horses or iron in Venice, so should i puppet the nearest CS with those resources? Screenshot attached.. I have my eye on Malacca because it has spices, horses (2) and iron (2), which I have none of. Another choice (althought they are close to Austria) is Belgrade, which has (or will have soon) Kilimanjaro. What do you guys think?

 

[Ryika]

I'd either pick Ormus or the one in the south first. (Most likely Ormus) Food-Cargo to Venice has highest priority for me, strategic resources are... well, a nice bonus, but that's it - especially in such low quantity.

An interesting continent btw, Siam will have a hard time with Austria and Venice as neighbors.

 

[BlackWizard]

For me puppeting priority as Venice is Militaristic, Maritime, Religious/Mercantile ,Cultural.

I will always avoid puppeting cultural city states because they are much better as allies. I will also puppet mercantile quite easily if plan is to play peaceful. If I'm going to warpath I rather puppet religious city states than mercantile.

 

[Calouste]

For me puppeting priority as Venice is Militaristic, Maritime, Religious/Mercantile ,Cultural.

I will always avoid puppeting cultural city states because they are much better as allies. I will also puppet mercantile quite easily if plan is to play peaceful. If I'm going to warpath I rather puppet religious city states than mercantile.

Actually, Mercantile city states are the ones you should puppet first, that is all except two of them. There are only two special luxuries for Mercantile city states (Porcelain and Jewelry), so you only get the maximum benefit out of allying two of them. The number of different luxuries city states have is also limited, so quite often one of your other allies has the same luxury. Which means that you don't get any benefit from allying a Mercantile city state beyond the first two that you wouldn't also get from allying a different city state (except for the 2 Happy that you get for being a friend of a Mercantile city state).

 

[joncnunn]

I would avoid buying Merchicle city states; they are an extremely cheap source of happiness. Just keep as friends the ones who would duplicate for yet another +3 happiness each.

 

[TheGrumpyBuddha]

I'd either pick Ormus or the one in the south first. (Most likely Ormus) Food-Cargo to Venice has highest priority for me, strategic resources are... well, a nice bonus, but that's it - especially in such low quantity.

An interesting continent btw, Siam will have a hard time with Austria and Venice as neighbors.

I agree. I'm not a Venice expert but when in doubt, you never pass up an extra 4 or 5 food a turn, which is what you're getting from the cargo ships vs caravans.

 

[King_Course]

Hey all, playing my first game as Venice, and I am not sure which CS to puppet.. I do not have horses or iron in Venice, so should i puppet the nearest CS with those resources? Screenshot attached.. I have my eye on Malacca because it has spices, horses (2) and iron (2), which I have none of. Another choice (althought they are close to Austria) is Belgrade, which has (or will have soon) Kilimanjaro. What do you guys think?

When I play Venice I rush to get the first merchant, which I then use to complete a trade mission and get a lot of gold (Cultural CS or Religious CS preferred). I rushbuy what I need with this, and get an ally cs. I build the Lighthouse for trade merchant GP, and also gun for the mausoleum if I have any stone/marble, also for a GP point.

The next GP I get I use to puppet a CS that can send a tradeboat with food to my capital. The next CS will do the same.

 

[JeSuisNapoleon]

Wittenburg maybe?
they have gems, east coast trading range.
Ormus would give spices and arguably better cargo ship access to Venice.

Getting Iron *could* be important when the time comes to upgrade or build frigates.
If you dont think your going to need early frigates, then I would look at the unique lux and geographic position of each CS and think on it.

things to consider:
+some new lux resource (this is a MUST HAVE), strategics of secondary importance early game.
+Will they be in range for a Cargo ship to the capitol?
+will the site extend your trading range to the rest of the world?
+Are they next to a competing capitol that you could later capture?
+Does puppeting weaken one or more of your competition?
+could the puppet grow into more valuable land over time / with GG citadel?

all of these would make me think about it. The first three are the most important IMHO.

 

[beetle]

Are the CS puppet targets any different for Venice than they are for Austria?

 

[JeSuisNapoleon]

No,I think it works the same way, they become your founded cities. Cannot be liberated.

the difference is that its easier for Venice. You can buy city states that are not allied. This makes it nice to pull allies away from other Civs (Like Austria). You do need a merchant, but I have always found that I get more than I need over the course of the game.

 

[beetle]

Yes, CS become like founded cities for both Austria and Venice. I am asking if the more flexible approach Venice has changes things as compared to the more limited approach Austria has to follow.

For Venice, shouldn’t the main factor in targeting CS be their ally status with a rival? Much more so than CS type? Or are the CS ally dynamics sufficiently fluid that Austria and Venice should be played the same when it comes to puppetting?

 

[joncnunn]

Yes, CS become like founded cities for both Austria and Venice. I am asking if the more flexible approach Venice has changes things as compared to the more limited approach Austria has to follow.

For Venice, shouldn’t the main factor in targeting CS be their ally status with a rival? Much more so than CS type? Or are the CS ally dynamics sufficiently fluid that Austria and Venice should be played the same when it comes to puppetting?

As Venice, you generally need to buy your first couple of city states before you've decided who your rivals are going to be.
Yes, later on you might make it a factor, but when you aren't competing for a city state yourself, those situations are highly fluid; do you really want to turn your GMOV around because one of your rivals lost control of the city state and it's now allied to your friend?

 

[Acken]

The main factor is which one can give you a cargo toward Venice. After that look for new luxuries and developed cities (higher pop if you can tank the happiness hit).