Please help me filter through too much info.

[McLMan]

Getting pretty confused in the Civ IV tech area so I thought I'd come to where the experts hang out. I've learned a couple of things (but not enough) lurking in these threads since I started coming here.

The background: Bought this computer from people we know at my son's Little League for $200. It's the 1st computer I've owned since I was in college in 1987. So far we have been very happy with it. All I do on it is Civ III & household stuff (I also enjoy the Scott's lawncare forums). My wife surprised me by pre-ordering Civ IV. My plan was to wait until some time after the release in order to see what problems others were having. I thought my system would be ok but I wasn't sure. (A week ago I would have thought TnL was a female hip-hop duo ) I was checking out the fourms during lunch on delivery day so I wasn't surprised that I had problems when I loaded the game. So I spent about 20 minutes looking at the menus and game controls, then packed everything back in the box and put it in the bottom desk drawer. I've spent the last 3 days reading more than I can digest about cards, PCI, AGP, 2x, 4x, 8x, TnL, pixel shading, RDRAM, SDRAM, etc.

The problem: The now infamous Cheshire Cat leaders & black terrain.

The culprit (known): Nvidia TNT2 Pro

The dilemna: I'd like to play Civ IV. I'm not interested in shooter games, besides, the only thing I have time for is a little bit of Civ. I know I need a new video card, but I'm not sure which one to get. Since the household budget just put out $54 for a new video game & Christmas is unfortunately unaviodable and getting ever closer I'd like to keep the graphics card fix to around $50, but I'd also like Civ IV to run well. If you guys tell me that I'd be better off spending much more than that I'd have to wait until after Christmas. It would be tough, but that's what I'd do. I know I need more memory too, but if you ignore the black terrain and creepy leaders the game seemed to do pretty well. I'd like to wait until after Christmas for the memory upgrade, especially since one of the things I learned is that RDRAM is pricey compared to SDRAM.

My system:

CPU: Intel Pentium 4 - 1.80 GHz
Mainboard: Intel model D850MV
Chipset: i850
Graphic Interface: AGP version 2.0 Transfer rate 4x (max supported)
Memory: 256 MBytes (2 x 128 MBytes Dual Channel RDRAM with 2 open slots)

I'm pretty sure the guy we bought this from built most of it himself. There is no manufacturer or model #.

What card would you recommend? Should I go with a PCI card since the AGP slot is only 4x? I plan on upgrading the memory to 512K in January. I've been considering the Radeon 9250.

Thanks in advance for your input. I'll be very happy to return the favor if you ever have a crabgrass problem or need help understanding the numbers on a bag of fertilizer.

 

[Zakharov]

I hope I'm not branding myself an expert by replying.

The culprit (known): Nvidia TNT2 Pro

You are correct that this is the culprit. Unfortunately that card lacks hardware T&L.

What card would you recommend? Should I go with a PCI card since the AGP slot is only 4x? I plan on upgrading the memory to 512K in January. I've been considering the Radeon 9250.

No, you don't even need to consider a PCI card. All cards branded as 8x AGP will work in a 4x AGP slot. I have this very combo in my machine (GeForce 6800 in a 4x slot), so I know it works.

The Radeon 9250 should be adequate for civ 4, provided you have the latest drivers installed (as evidenced by the many ATI problems on these forums). However, if you shop at somewhere like www.newegg.com you could pick up a Radeon 9550 for around $50. I believe this card is a generation ahead of the 9250, despite them both being named in the 9xxx range. Just make sure you choose one with a 128-bit memory interface as the 64-bit version has crippled performance for about the same price.

Btw, your proposed RAM upgrade will certainly be worthwhile.

 

[Speedo]

You may be confusing PCI-Express and PCI. AGP 4x is most definetly better than PCI, but PCI-Express is the newest standard, and faster than AGP. To be able to use it would require a full system upgrade for you though, so you'll just want to stick with AGP.

I think I would go with a Radeon 9600 for the video card. It looks like you can get one for about $70, and it should give decent performance in Civ4. At least, I have a friend who's able to play Battlefield 2 with one, and I would guess that it's quite a bit more demanding than CiV4. I know it's $20 more than you're looking to spend, but I think the performance benefit would be worth it.

The problem with RDRAM is that it was expensive it came out and was going to be the next big thing... but it never really caught on, so now it isn't used (in new comps, that is), and it's still expensive. Looks like 256MB of RDRAM will cost you about $80- which is almost 4 times the price of the currently used DDR and DDR2 RAM.

I'll be very happy to return the favor if you ever have a crabgrass problem or need help understanding the numbers on a bag of fertilizer.

Unless you want to help my parents with their wiregrass problem... but I think they're fighting a losing battle

 

[Speedo]

However, if you shop at somewhere like www.newegg.com you could pick up a Radeon 9550 for around $50. I believe this card is a generation ahead of the 9250, despite them both being named in the 9xxx range.

They're actually in the same generation, the 9250 just has very crippled performance. Honestly most of those very low end cards don't do much except take advantage of people who don't research before they buy.

 

[Zakharov]

The reason I thought they were different is because the 9250 is listed as a DX 8/OpenGL 1.3 card, while the 9550 is DX 9/OpenGL 1.5 just like the 9600 and 9800 cards.

 

[McLMan]

Thanks a ton for your help guys. It sounds like the 9600 is a good choice for me. Nice to be alerted that the 9250 would not have been a wise choice. I've found 3 different types of 9600's though. A "straight" 9600, 9600 SE, and 9600 Pro. They all seem very much the same to me, but the Pro looks a little better. Am I right?

Unless you want to help my parents with their wiregrass problem... but I think they're fighting a losing battle

Wiregrass is probably the toughest weed problem to have. It sends out runners similar to crabgrass, but it's roots run a lot deeper. Up to 3 feet. You're never going to be able to pull it, and it's resistant to anything that's safe to put on your lawn. The only thing you can do is spray it with a strong herbicide such as Roundup Weed & Grass Killer. You've got to be careful to spray only the wiregrass though, because it will also kill your lawn. The fall is the best time to spray because the wiregrass is pumping sugars down to it's roots as hard as it can in preparation for the winter & it will carry the Roundup down with it. It's your best shot to get the whole weed. You need to do this at least a week before the first frost though, because the green part of the wiregrass will die with the first frost, and not carry anything anywhere. You can keep the seeds that your wiregrass dropped this season from germinating in the spring by applying a crabgrass preventer. But you need to apply it about a month earlier than it recommends for crabgrass because wiregrass germinates at colder soil temperatures than crabgrass does.

Tell your parents good luck. It will probably be a 2 or 3 year battle to get it completely gone.

 

[Speedo]

Thanks a ton for your help guys. It sounds like the 9600 is a good choice for me. Nice to be alerted that the 9250 would not have been a wise choice. I've found 3 different types of 9600's though. A "straight" 9600, 9600 SE, and 9600 Pro. They all seem very much the same to me, but the Pro looks a little better. Am I right?

Right, I *think* that the 9600SE is the lower-end version of the series, then the straight 9600 should be next, then the 9600 Pro, and there may also be a 9600XT which would be the fastest of the series. Not sure how much price difference there would be between them- I would just shoot for a straight 9600 unless the Pro or XT isn't that much more.

Btw, what version of windows are you running?

Wiregrass is probably the toughest weed problem to have. It sends out runners similar to crabgrass, but it's roots run a lot deeper. Up to 3 feet. You're never going to be able to pull it, and it's resistant to anything that's safe to put on your lawn. The only thing you can do is spray it with a strong herbicide such as Roundup Weed & Grass Killer. You've got to be careful to spray only the wiregrass though, because it will also kill your lawn. The fall is the best time to spray because the wiregrass is pumping sugars down to it's roots as hard as it can in preparation for the winter & it will carry the Roundup down with it. It's your best shot to get the whole weed. You need to do this at least a week before the first frost though, because the green part of the wiregrass will die with the first frost, and not carry anything anywhere. You can keep the seeds that your wiregrass dropped this season from germinating in the spring by applying a crabgrass preventer. But you need to apply it about a month earlier than it recommends for crabgrass because wiregrass germinates at colder soil temperatures than crabgrass does.

Tell your parents good luck. It will probably be a 2 or 3 year battle to get it completely gone.

Hehe, my solution was to spray the affected area with kerosene and burn it out. Maybe it's a good thing that they didn't listen to me

They've been fighting this for a while though, I remeber several times helping them spray entire sections of the lawn with Roundup (multiple times) then plowing it up and replanting the grass. Of course, it would only be a year or two later that it would snow, so that the road scraper could drag more seeds down and let them start all over This time they've somehow gotten it out near the house, so they're pretty unhappy campers since they're big in the gardening and flowerbeds stuff. I'll pass on the advice, at least.

 

[McLMan]

Btw, what version of windows are you running?

XP - Home Edition SP2

Hehe, my solution was to spray the affected area with kerosene and burn it out. Maybe it's a good thing that they didn't listen to me

While kerosene & a match is the most entertaining solution it's not very effective in the long run.