Pointless requests for declarations of war have to go!

[John DiFool2]

Yes, I've read the relevant threads on search about how this is intended for balance, favoring the poor brainless AI's vs. the wily Machiavellian human who can otherwise play them all like an orchestra, but really. Isn't there another way to balance diplomacy than this?

I am playing that 40 civ huge map, and have managed to explore most of the world and meet most of the civs by 200 AD. Every turn I am pestered by at least one bogus request for a DOW on someone's "mortal enemy" 8,000 miles away from me. Yeah sure bub, I am going to load up 6 galleys with half my army, take 30 turns to sail halfway across the world at a speed of two, and join you in your crusade, which almost certainly will have turned back into peace by the time I get there.

If it is possible to mod their preferences for a DOW request based on the following criteria, then I will (I don't know) buy that person a six-pack or something:

1. Paramount factor: the distance between your civ and the target civ isn't that far away (closest city to closest city), with that distance becoming somewhat less important as the game progresses (as units get faster). The presence of intervening ocean areas should also act as a negative factor.

2. The probability of the request depends strongly on +/- relations scale. There's really no reason for someone who is negative to you to be asking you to help in a war. Most requests should come from those who are +5 or greater to you, dropping off exponentially as you go below that, very rarely from someone less than 0 unless the target is adjacent to you and the requesting civ.

I don't know if any of that is moddable, but if any future patches are in the offing I'd love to see Firaxis remedy this.

 

[Genv [FP]]

There's reasons why you aren't allowed to have 40 civs on a map, buddy.

 

[Joshua368]

Even with a normal amount of civs, you get ridiculous requests from AIs asking you to war their distant enemies, or enemy AIs asking for you to help fight your friends.

Also I kind of wish they'd offer you things to go to war/change civics/etc just like you have to, instead of always asking for free and getting annoyed when you refuse... though I can easily see how this would be broken as there'd be no reason for you to keep your word.

 

[Defiant47]

Perhaps an "ignore all" feature would be nice. Rather than have to bother with the screen, you just automatically receive the -1?

 

[Joshua368]

Perhaps an "ignore all" feature would be nice. Rather than have to bother with the screen, you just automatically receive the -1?

Well not everyone, but it would be nice to be able to block out certain people, kind of like what the AI does when you cancel deals or begin a war.

 

[purplerat]

There's reasons why you aren't allowed to have 40 civs on a map, buddy.

That's a pretty poor/lazy excuse. It happens regardless of size and number of Civs and is pretty annoying. Last night I play a 16 Civ Huge map game and the last 10 turns as I awaited Space victory were almost unbearable. As I had rushed to finish my ship and launch the whole world pretty much went to hell in a hand basket, but I was able to avoid war. Still every single turn brought atleast 3 request for DoW or atleast Stop Trading With. Considering I only had 1 Civ with whom I was really friendly with and 3 of them pestering me had fought with me in the last 50 turns it got pretty annoying. I was tempted to just say f'it and retire knowing I would have won anyways.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

My personal favorite is requests for intercontinental DoW's pre-astronomy .

 

[schadenfreude]

Maybe you should get a -1 that quickly wears off, say in 20 turns. And a plus 3 should you accept. Or less than a plus 3, but you get to negotiate gold per turn &/or luxuries for however long you fight.

It really is a huge longshot request and should be treated as such by computer.

 

[petcarcharodon]

I've had my worst enemy ask me to DOW my best friend.

 

[GooglyBoogly]

Well you never know. Maybe you were just buttering up your 'friend' for a backstab. It cannot hurt an AI to have a try.

 

[FlyinJohnnyL]

I too find these request annoying sometimes. However, you DO realize that you can be in a war, and not really fight right? And you won't get War Weariness if you stay in your own borders. In the earlier stages of the game, feel free to accept someone's DOW if the enemy is far away. They won't send troops your way because you are too far from them, as well as the fact they are fightin' the guy who asked you to help in the first place. You can literally get the mutual military struggle bonus, be in war for 20 turns without even fighting at all, and basically just keep playing as you normally would. Business as usual.

 

[Onionsoilder]

I too find these request annoying sometimes. However, you DO realize that you can be in a war, and not really fight right? And you won't get War Weariness if you stay in your own borders. In the earlier stages of the game, feel free to accept someone's DOW if the enemy is far away. They won't send troops your way because you are too far from them, as well as the fact they are fightin' the guy who asked you to help in the first place. You can literally get the mutual military struggle bonus, be in war for 20 turns without even fighting at all, and basically just keep playing as you normally would. Business as usual.

Except then you will get the "You Declared War on our Friend" relationship penalty. That is another thing that bugs me. When you declare war on say, Maya, and Germany is "cautious" with Maya, why do they consider them a friend? At a minimum, I think they should be "Pleased" with the other civilization before you get the penalty.

The problem with civilization is it is IMPOSSIBLE to be neutral. You either get half the world to hate you and the other half to love you, or you get the entire world to hate you. I realize for people who like Domination/Conquest, this is no problem, but I NEVER go for those victories. For once I would just like to play as Switzerland. No, not the civ Switzerland, the neutrality part.

 

[GooglyBoogly]

The mouseover relations you see are not the true relations. There are many hidden modifiers for AI relationships that are not shown in the at a glance tab, so while a civ may appear to be cautious they may actually be friendly or hostile

 

[LeRan]

Except then you will get the "You Declared War on our Friend" relationship penalty. That is another thing that bugs me. When you declare war on say, Maya, and Germany is "cautious" with Maya, why do they consider them a friend? At a minimum, I think they should be "Pleased" with the other civilization before you get the penalty.

That's not totally true : you can manage to stay neutral if you don't declare war to anybody (I tend myself to have a peacemonger strategy), and if you're cautious about whom you trade with.

Typically, if you want to stay neutral, try to trade with as few people as possible - and that includes right of passage agreement. Eventually, if you manage to pass a few deals in the early game before people start to have worst enemies, you can even have a positive score with everybody even without the RoP agreements. Know that as soon as you trade, you're bound to piss off people since others will come demanding that you break your deals !

About wars, I had a great game (as India ) where I chose to be pacifist and waged only defensive wars - never declared a single one. Fortunately, the AI usually (but not always) lets you time to know what is coming your way by demanding tributes beforehand. The downside is that, since you don't choose the moment when you go to war, you will spend several turns off-balance with a war at your borders. It's quite a demanding sort of play, but it's also very rewarding for the peace-loving mind to win such a game !

P.S. I suppose that the art of defensive wars would deserve a treaty in itself... As far as I know, there are several possible ways to respond to the threat of a war when you know you will be on the receiving side : a large standing modern army, a large standing obsolete army plus reserves of cash to upgrade it when needed, conscription + railroads, defensive treaties with your neighbours (this last one is very effective !)... If you know more, tell me, I will put that knowledge to good use

 

[TheDS]

Okay, maybe I'm just a weakling Noble/Prince player, but in the games I've played, I tend to have good enough relations with just about everyone to get Open Borders with them all. I almost always deny "requests" for techs/stop trading/DoW, and yes, this can lead to some hefty negatives when you tell some little chihuahua to shut the hell up about attacking a big dog clear on the other side of the world, but if you build your military strong enough, you don't really have to worry about being invaded, and you can keep on trading and your research can continue to skyrocket because you've got ALL the foreign cities to trade with.

OTOH, I don't get many offers for Defense Pact and haven't seen PA in ages, but that doesn't stop me from winning the game, or munching the little guys to bide my time building up to smash the big guys before they win.

A funny: some nitwit demanded I break trade relations with his enemy. Once the turn finished processing, he force-vassalized the guy he wanted me to stop trading with. I'd rather take the "-1 You wouldn't stop trading" than the "-3 you stopped trading" AND the fewer cities to run my trade routes through.

 

[Jazzmail]

Also I kind of wish they'd offer you things to go to war/change civics/etc just like you have to, instead of always asking for free and getting annoyed when you refuse... though I can easily see how this would be broken as there'd be no reason for you to keep your word.

You already get something: better relations with the enemies of your new enemy.
Most of the time you'll end up angering some civs anyway, so you might aswell join a war and make some friends too.

Joining wars is generally a good thing. The only question is which team is best for you.

If you plan ahead those questions are still annoying (since you can already volunteer to join a war anytime you like), but it won't harm you. If it's the wrong team asking for your help, just refuse, since you'll end up pissing them off anyway by declaring war on them.
Ofcourse if you decide early, those requests won't come up in the first place, since you'll already be at war.

 

[TheDS]

Oh, they'll still come up. Probably the only AI that won't ask you for help attacking someone is the one you're at war with.