Poland as 1 of 10 new Civilizations added in BTS?

[Mirc]

I don't think Poland would be added based on their status as a power, so much as they are a big representation of Slavic based people.

I mean you have many Germanic peoples represented throughout most of Europe, from Scandinavians to French to Germans themselves, but you don't get anything in Eurasia other than Russia. When you look at the choices, Poland is the most notable (or one of) unused slavic peoples.

I think including them would make complete sense, same as an Indochina (Khmer), Amerindian (Iroquois), and Oceanic (debatable) Civ.

How are the French Germanic? Do you mean the Franks? And if you do, they are not in Civ4 anyway. And in case you didn't know, there are much more than just slavics in Eastern Europe and Russia.

 

[mitsho]

@mitsho:

My problem with Kosciusko is that he was never a government leader. In Civ IV, all but one of the leaders were at some point the head of that country's government; the sole exception, Hannibal, lived in a society without a single leader (decisions were made between the heads of the aristocratic families by consensus), and being the general of the biggest most important army was the closest thing.

Slightly wrong in two points: Kosciusko was the leader of the 1794-uprising (called Kosciusko-uprising ) and acted as the head of government during that time. (until 1795 when Poland was parted a third time). And Hannibal is not the only leader that wasn't the head of his country (I'd say he was). What about Gandhi? Churchill wasn't technically too ("head" is still the Queen/King ). Did Shaka really unite all the Zulu tribes? Dito with Ragnar and especially BRennus. I know you are directing not at this, but at the fact that he or she had to be a leader or leading figure of his own people. And I do think he did that.

If you go for the opposite, Queen Victoria doesn't suit again, as it were mostly her prime ministers who "made the decisions"...

mick

 

[Martinus]

Kosciuszko would be a horrible leader choice. He was a commander of a failed uprising, fought for a short period that followed in Poland being erased from maps.

It's like making Monmouth leader of the English.

 

[LDeska]

I'm really looking forward to read the full list of new civs. I hope that thanks to so many request from players, Firaxis will finally add Poland as a playable civ.

MusX - you should join our club: forum.kac.org.pl - we discuss there petition and other civ-related issues. But first of all we PLAY civ4

Martinus - I don't think that Kościuszko would be a bad choice. He is regarded as a national hero... I would be grteful to see him in. There is also few other leaders to be considered (beside Queen Jadwiga and Casimir The Great): Marshall Józef Piłsudski, King Władysław Jagiełło, King Stefan Batory, King Jan III Sobieski.

 

[Mirc]

I'm really looking forward to read the full list of new civs. I hope that thanks to so many request from players, Firaxis will finally add Poland as a playable civ.

MusX - you should join our club: forum.kac.org.pl - we discuss there petition and other civ-related issues. But first of all we PLAY civ4

Martinus - I don't think that Kościuszko would be a bad choice. He is regarded as a national hero... I would be grteful to see him in. There is also few other leaders to be considered (beside Queen Jadwiga and Casimir The Great): Marshall Józef Piłsudski, King Władysław Jagiełło, King Stefan Batory, King Jan III Sobieski.

He was a Hungarian noble who was prince of Transylvania, king of Poland and Grand Duke of Lithuania. I'm not sure I'll put him at Poland, I'd count Hungary, Romania, Poland, Lithuania as his countries.

 

[LDeska]

As I read in Wiki - he was a Prince of Siedmiogród (Seven-city) and King of Poland and Lithuania. I don't know if he is regarded as a hero in Hungary, but in Poland he is (he was the best of elected kings - for some time nobles in Poland were electing the king in a semi-democratic way).
Władysław Jagiełło was also not Polish, he was a Lithuanian Prince, who married Polish Queen and become King of Poland, but we still would like to see him as a leader of Poland (though in fact he was a leader of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth).

In medieval times many kings were from other countries... it was normal. If we would like to stick to purely Polish Kings, we would have to use Piast dynasty - they ruled Poland from the beginning (X century) till 1370.

 

[Mirc]

Seven-City - Siebenburgen - Transilvania - Transzilvanya, Transylvania.

They all mean the same thing.

I was not contesting him. I was merely pointing out a funny fact.

 

[Yakk]

Pactically, they should look at the demographics of their purchasing audience, and make a few civilizations based off of where their buyers are.

 

[Kietharr]

Having your nation as a civ in the game dosn't really make it any more appealing. I never play America, nice to know it's in but it really dosn't matter. But I have to echo what has been said about austro-hungary, it wasn't really a civ so much as a large group of civs united under one crown. Poland is a good choice for an eastern European nation, but there are certainly others that had a larger impact on the world scale that i'd rather see first, same goes for Canada and Australia but even moreso, they're both even younger than the USA and havn't had 1/10th of the world impact.

 

[Martinus]

I think it would be cool to see Poland in, both as an interesting choice and as a nod to what seems like a large player base (that being said, maybe it is not so large, just that it seems so from the perspective of being a Pole myself). However, I don't think Poland "deserves" to be in Civ4 more than other civs, if only because the choice of civilizations seems arbitrary and based on playability rather than actual historical importance or anything (which is the way I like it).

 

[Ishon]

A loud 'YES' for Poland. There is no civilization in Civ IV + Warlords that I would kick out to put Poland instead, but now when we're adding 10 new civilizations it would be a hopeless mistake not to include Poland just as it would be a bad mistake not to include the Netherlands.

Poland has a consistent culture and considerable cultural achievements (the Copernicus Observatory - yes, Poland - no?), a long history, it strongly influenced the history of Europe, it is a 55 million nation in the middle of Europe and it went through most historical periods - way more than the U.S. did.

To my mind there's simply no way not to include it among the 10 new civilizations and put some.. Khmers/Sioux/Iroquis instead.

Austria-Hungary had: no consistent culture and no long history. It wasn't even a nation.

Austria by itself is too insignificant and it's culture is not distinct enough.

But I do support adding Israel - mostly because of the cultural factor (Judaism without Israel?) and an ancient history.

Sweden - no, because we've already got the Vikings. The Netherlands, Portugal - yes (impact on the history of the world).

 

[PolskiKrol]

Does it take a lot to include a new civilization? The hardest thing I can think of would be the CG animation in the trade screen.

 

[Mirc]

You have to create a leader (or more, but one is minimum), which implies making a new animation, finding a name that people aren't upset about, make a Unique Unit, meaning you have to make the graphics, and make the stats for it (strength, bonuses, etc) find some traits, get a good city list, which has to be accurate - must consider bigger and smaller cities, but also their date of creation and importance in history - and you have to play with it to see if it's balanced. And you must take care that it's actually an important civ. There were many people that didn't agree with Korea when the expansions for Civ3 came out. You can't just include anything and say "you know, it's an extra one, be happy about it".

 

[Hero]

Here's your leader:

 

[TheDuckLover]

No offense, but Poland never had a great empire or anything.

 

[LDeska]

All the job is done: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=144016
AFAIK Polish mod was the first one with animated leaderhead (maybe I'm wrong). List of cities, UU, leaders, traits - it's all done.

Hero - great joke I think that most of female civ-players would choose Poland then at least that's what happened in France

TheDuckLover - read my thread http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=193894 and petition (link is in my sig) - you'll see how wrong you are...

 

[Mirc]

Unfortunately, they can't use fan-made material. It might have copyrights... Like props with which the model was made, site from which clothing is took from, etc. And they can't risk that.

I was just answering to PoskiKrol.

 

[.Shane.]

I like the idea of Austria-Hungary or the HRE much more than Poland. I'd love it if they added Atlantis for Sn'G.

Looks like the Sioux, but I'd prefer the Iroqois Confederacy.

Didn't we also see Charlemegne referenced in the news item?

 

[MarkM]

Look, it's a game, not a nationalistic competition. What unique traits/AI play style would a Pole leader bring? Maybe its due to my ignorance of polish history, but I can think of a lot of other leaders who might be more "fresh" and varied from existing leaders than another generally obscure mid-tier european. Say, Tecumseh? Boudica? These are leaders that many people are familiar with and have established, striking images of (so they might have a visceral idea of what to expect from them if they encounter them, and not have to look them up to begin to even have a clue what kind of AI personality & traits they might have).

Please don't lose sight that the most important thing is to keep this a great game, and not mess that up with desires to fulfill nationalistic pride.

 

[LDeska]

Mirc - as I'm working on a petition to Firaxis to add Poland, I'm quite well informed about Polish mod. We have already agreement from almost all of authors of this mod. If we will gather agreements from all authors of this mod, we will transfer copyright to Firaxis. Then we have two plans: plan A: Firaxis prepares Polish civ for next add-ons, plan B: Cenega, Polish distributor of civ, bundles Polish mod with civ4 and sales it together.

MarmM - yes, it's because of ignorance. Tecumseh? Boudica? Never heard of them, maybe they are called totally different in Polish, but probably you're thinking about some tribes which never created even a city, not speaking about Civilization...