Polish Civ - Discussion

[Martinus]

Please continue the discussion about this mod here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=3380653#post3380653

Hey everybody. I'm surprised noone brought up the topic of the Polish civ yet (except somethingawful.com that is ). I guess that's because not many people have the game in Poland yet, since it is scheduled for late November.

Now, before we begin, I need to say that I have no idea about graphics editing, so that's the first plea to someone to do it. Having said that, here is my suggestion for the Polish civ:

Civilization Name: Polish Empire
Short Name: Poland
Adjective: Polish
Starting Techs: Agriculture, Mysticism

Leaders:
Imo, one should represent the "golden age" Poland of great people like Copernicus etc., the other should represent the Poland as "bullwark of Christianity", of the Poland-Lithuania era. I suggest:

Kazimierz Wielki (Casimir the Great) - Philosophical, Organized, favours Hereditary Monarchy
Jan III Sobieski (John III Sobieski) - Spiritual, Expansive, favours Representation

The AI for Casimir the Great should be similar to that of Frederick ("peaceful builder"), the AI for Sobieski should be like that of Bismarck or Ceasar ("moderate warmonger").

Other leader suggestion could be Pilsudski, but I think it was the pre-partition, not pre-war Poland that should be represented as a "civilization".

Special unit: Hussar, replaces Knight. My suggestion: like knight, but gets +50% bonus against mounted unit (this is a bonus on par with conquistador, that gets similar bonus against infantry units - the justification is obviously the wings attached to horses, that made a sound that scared enemy horses, not accustomed to that noise).

 

[Martinus]

Here are pictures of both leaders, in case someone felt generous enough to make (evwn static) leaderheads resembling them (I'm looking at you, Civ Army )

Casimir the Great:

John III Sobieski:

 

[Jecrell]

Well that's not too hard. I'll set up your leaderheads for in-game use.

 

[NKVD]

i'm not polish but I live in the polish community in Montreal...that would be great...the history of Poland is one of my next 5 read thats for sure...

 

[Azazell]

ooo Polish !!!! where is this Mod ?

Pozdrówka dla polskich graczy :>

 

[Rulkiewicz]

Yes, I would love to see a Polish Mod.

 

[Anima Croatorum]

sobieski and pilsudski, the last great king and the man who recreated poland. definitively the best pick.

 

[Azazell]

Sobieski ? No!

This One:
-Boleslaw Chrobry
-Jozef Pilsudski
-Wladyslaw Lokietek
-Stefan Batory

mabye this ?

 

[Martinus]

Sobieski ? No!

This One:
-Boleslaw Chrobry
-Jozef Pilsudski
-Wladyslaw Lokietek
-Stefan Batory

mabye this ?

None of them (maybe except Batory) represents the "second face" of Poland: expansive and religious, the "bullwark of Christianity". It would have to be one of the post-Jagellon monarchs, really, and I think Sobieski is better known than Batory. As for Pilsudski, well, Poland of 1918-1939 was ultimately a failure, and in any way wasn't the Poland that deserves to be a "civilization" in a game like Civ, imo (in a way it's similar to what you have with England - it's Elisabeth at the height of its golden age and Victoria at the height of its imperial age - not Churchill, who was a great leader, but didn't rule England at its greatest any more).

 

[Astax]

I support this idea

Jestem za tym

 

[q7777777]

There are some basic ideas in here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=132512&page=3 made by kiwusek...

 

[Jecrell]

Sorry it took so long!
Included are the leaderhead .dds files and button files.

 

[Azazell]

where is the copy this leaderheds.zip ??

 

[Orion66]

Although am a Pole I love playing Germans.....

but... Polish civilization should have its place in this game. Boleslaw Chrobry Rulezzzzz.......

Precz z Kaczyńskim!

 

[Martinus]

There are some basic ideas in here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=132512&page=3 made by kiwusek...

Well, personally I think some of his ideas (especially about leaders/leaders traits) are horrible.

Even if you decide to include Pilsudski, giving him Agg/Exp (the traits of Genghis Khan) is simply a misunderstanding - it's not like he invaded everybody around. Likewise, traits given for Casimir do not even exist in Civ4, and if you "translate" them into Civ4, they turn into Phi/Ind - the combo left out deliberately by devs, because it is overpowered.

Also, there is no such thing as civ-specific great people, as his post seems to imply, so those ideas are irrelevant.

In short, I started this thread partially because I'd rather not play THAT Polish civ mod.

 

[Rulkiewicz]

Well, personally I think some of his ideas (especially about leaders/leaders traits) are horrible.

Even if you decide to include Pilsudski, giving him Agg/Exp (the traits of Genghis Khan) is simply a misunderstanding - it's not like he invaded everybody around. Likewise, traits given for Casimir do not even exist in Civ4, and if you "translate" them into Civ4, they turn into Phi/Ind - the combo left out deliberately by devs, because it is overpowered.

Also, there is no such thing as civ-specific great people, as his post seems to imply, so those ideas are irrelevant.

In short, I started this thread partially because I'd rather not play THAT Polish civ mod.

I like you ideas, Martinus. Maybe you could start a mod? I would like to see a mod on the period of fragmentation. Although I am a little biased in wanting to see a mod specifically created for and about my Polish brethren!

...Or any other mod which includes Poland, in a historically accurate portrait.

 

[q7777777]

Well, personally I think some of his ideas (especially about leaders/leaders traits) are horrible.

Even if you decide to include Pilsudski, giving him Agg/Exp (the traits of Genghis Khan) is simply a misunderstanding - it's not like he invaded everybody around. Likewise, traits given for Casimir do not even exist in Civ4, and if you "translate" them into Civ4, they turn into Phi/Ind - the combo left out deliberately by devs, because it is overpowered.

Also, there is no such thing as civ-specific great people, as his post seems to imply, so those ideas are irrelevant.

In short, I started this thread partially because I'd rather not play THAT Polish civ mod.

I wasn't implying that he's ideas are good (or bad). I'm not even sure that he's actually doing a Polish mod (i doubt that tbh). I just hope that somebody (anybody) will do Polish mod... As i wrote somewhere - don't count on my knowledge, because i have skipped most of my history lessons in school... Anyway I wish you good luck (and please inform us of progress you'll made).

 

[Rulkiewicz]

Any progress?

 

[Sadistik]

Aside from the obvious (that this thread should be moved to the New Civs forum), I think it's a great idea. Poland was a major power for a brief period between the Mongol collapse and the Russian ascent. Moscow and Berlin are pretty far from oneanother and with no Viking or Ukranian civs, that whole Baltic region is under-represented.

I think though, Marty, that Hussar is too much of a generic term. Wouldn't "Husaria" be better, as it specifically refers to the Polish heavy cavalry?



Yours,
Sadistik

 

[Martinus]

Yeah, Husaria could work too, Sad.

As for progress, I have made the Civ with both leaders playable, using the graphics of Peter for Kazimierz and Bismarck for Sobieski (more about it below), as well as Russian language "soundtrack" for units.

On the text side of things, I need Civilopedia write-ups for Poland, Sobieski, Kazimierz and Husaria; AI script for Sobieski and Kazimierz (so far using the generic for Mansa Musa, but now I am thinking which other leader would work the best - possibly also Bismarck or Louis XIV, with a bit more of relious stress, for Sobieski, and maybe Frederick for Kazimierz). I am also considering customising the diplo lines for Sobieski and Kazimierz, giving them more personality (any ideas of what parts of their respective personalities were interesting and should be included are most welcome - so far I have been picturing Sobieski as a kind of proud fellow, but a bit afraid of his wife, and Kazimierz as a rake with a tendency for cultured behaviour).

On the sounds side, I have all lines that need to be recorded in Polish written down and if noone steps up to record them (which would be most welcome, as my voice is not perfect) I will eventually have them recorded.

Concerning music, I am toying with the idea of giving Kazimierz the Bogurodzica and Sobieski the Wojciech Killar's "Polonaise" from Pan Tadeusz movie - now, if anyone had good music editor, that would allow to "primitivise" the music for the Polonaise, along the same lines as used for other civs (for different epochs), it would be awesome. (Of course, this will be referred to in credits, so no copyright infringement there).

Finally, graphics. I gave Poland dark red border, however all the graphics needs to be done, and I don't think I know how to do it - so anyone with some skill at it would be more than welcome.

What we need is:
- Polish flag (should be relatively easy to make - white eagle on red background),
- Hussaria unit - probably will require more work,
- leaderheads, preferrably animated.

If it is any help, I think for Sobieski we could actually use Bismarck only that:
1) change his moustache to black, instead of grey
2) remove his helmet
3) give him an armour instead of uniform
4) replace background with Louis XIV background (Versailles looks a lot like Willanow palace, built by Sobieski).

Of course, I cannot stress strong enough that anyone willing to help with any of the above would be great.