Polish civ, question and a poll

[Winged Hussar]

Hi all, I'm new here. Just purchased civ 3 recently and installed the patch.

Is anyone currently working on a Polish civ/mod? I am trying to figure out how to make one, since I am fairly computer illiterate.

Also, how many people think it would be a good idea to add Poland, and how many don't agree? Please list your reasons.

Here are my reasons:

I think Poland would be a good addition, since it was one of the most powerful and interesting nations in Europe for more then 300 years. Well, maybe I should call the civ the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, since these two were once united under a common king, and neither country would ever reach the level of power they achieved without joining forces.

1) Major power in Europe for a fairly long time.

2) Influenced European history on numerous occasions, mainly by keeping in check the Turks/Tatars. Most historians agree that Europe would turn out much differently if Jan Sobieski III did not save Vienna from the Turks.

3) Interesting government a little to ahead of its time (which eventually led to the countries downfall)

4) AWSOME army - unlike other armies, the Polish army of the 16th century (for example) was made up of 80% cavalry, and 20% infantry - and the latter was only a support tool and never really took part in the more interesting battles. Foes of Poland would most of the time face an all-cavalry army on the battlesfield.

5) Final reason - The Winged Hussars! The best cavalry unit ever. Often winning battles outnumbered 10 to 1, it was the pride of the Polish armies. Certainly, a good UU if the Polish Civ is ever modeled.

Looking forward to the replys,

Jack
Winged Hussar

 

[Zouave]

I agree with you.

Try going into the Civ III Editor and exploring for awhile. You can change most of what you need therein.

Then check out the Completed Mods forum for the LWC mod, and other threads that go beyond the Editor and include such as maps of Europe and specific starting positions.

The Apolyton boards equivalent even has a tutorial by Plutarck, the inventor of the LWC mod.

You'll have to do a bit of reading.

Below is Napoleon's Elba Squadron: the Polish Lancers of the Guard.

 

[Winged Hussar]

Thanks Zouave, I'll go explore.

...and very nice picture! I guess it would be a toss up for the UU, since both the Hussars and Ulans sound good.

Jack

 

[Zouave]

Good luck. Many other civs have shown up; about time for the Poles.

Here is your Great Leader: Marshal Poniatowski.

 

[The_Clash]

I don't mean to sounds cruel but the Poles? They often get over runned by everyone. The Russians, Germans, Mongols, and seemingly everyone else throughout history seems to beat up on them.

Just my two cents

 

[Zouave]

I suggest you work on your "knowledge" of History, along with your bad English, before posting again.

 

[Winged Hussar]

Clash,

First of all, being an American now (and a service member), my opinion is not biased. ...but if America is a "civ" in this great game of ours, then so should Poland. The US has been a power for less then 200 years. Rome, Greece, Babylon, or Egypt fell never to rise again - Poland fell from power after 400+ years of being a very powerful and influential country, only to rise again after more then 300 years of not even being on the map of Europe. ...and when it comes to the military, no other country influenced cavalry combat in Europe (or the US for that matter) more then Poland did.

Also, as far as your knowledge of history - let me just say you need to read up some more.

Read Norman Davis' "God's Playground" for starters.

Cheers,

Jack
Winged Hussar

 

[Piernik]

Hello everyone

I'm happy to announce that work on a polish civ is about to end
We have only one problem with unit - Hussar, but I hope thet first mod will be avaible on Monday

Here's a polish (with english) site. Visit forum

 

[sealman]

Can't wait.

Winged Hussar: Never read "God's Playground" but it is sitting on my father's bookshelf. May have to grab it next time I visit. How does it read, like a novel ala "Poland" by Michener or more like a History?

Regarding the UU, why not both?

I just can't wait till I get a chance to drive my Hussars and/or Ulans through Germany and Russia!

Clash: Didn't everyone get run over by the Mongols? Poland is a more deserving Civ then say, Canda (no offense to our brothers and sisters in the North)

Is it Monday yet? I feel like a little kid at Christmas.

 

[Winged Hussar]

Yeah, two UUs (hussars, ulans) would be fun, but only if every other civ had two as well.

I did create a Polish civ a couple days ago - no editing of such things as the "head" of the leader (I used Bismarck), and of course no "new" unit icons. As for the UU, I simply edited the knight and made a hussar - I gave it an extra 2 hit points, 1 defensive point, and 1 extra movement point. My reasoning was that on the offensive (when compared to a regular knight), the hussars were unbeatable and that put them in the history books -certainly worth more then adding just 1 extra hit point. As for defense, the hussars were not "heavy" cavalry, but rather "medium" cavalry - heavy iron clad western knights were easy prey when ambushed, but hussars had more defensive capability since, well, they did not weight hundreds of pounds. Movement was a difficult call since I did not want to make too good of a unit and make the game unfair, but I finally decided on giving the hussar one more movement point over a regular knight becasue of their tactics - the fast flanking attack was another thing that made them famous. Also, the horses used by the hussars were somewhat superior to those used anywhere else, and of course the weight factor is another reason why I gave them more movement.

I started playing as Poland, using kittenofchaos' "world" with actual civ starting locations and on the warlord level. I don't play too much, and only yesterday did I finally learn chivarly. Hehe, the Germans and Russians started a war with me, but that was all in the plan - I pressured them into it by refusing to deal with them in trade and simply by yelling at them everytime a settler or worker stepped inside my small but cozy kingdom (I wanted to stay in character, Poland was never too aggressive). When they finally attacked me (later Russia brought the Greeks into it), I was holding on to my dear virtual butt by using horsemen to repel their attacks (maybe the "plan" happened a little too early I guess, since I was a couple turns away from being able to spit out hussars out of my barracks). Still, once my eggheads learned how to put wings onto hussars, I started building my UU in every one of my 7 cities (Russia had 15+ cities , Germany had 4 in the west, 1 in Scandinavia, and 5 in Turkey, and Greece had 6 total). A couple turns later, I had 20 or so hussars which I was stacking up in a fort away from the "frontier" cities. Once I unleashed them, one turn is all that it took to capture Moscow, Berlin, Athens, and several other big cities. It was so much fun that after signing a peace treaty with my three enemies (or I should say having them pay me for a peace treaty), I gave back the cities I took to their previous owners - just that sometime down the line I would have a chance to have a second "hussar" war with those guys. <Sigh>, now if only someone could make an animated unit that looks like a hussar. ...the edited knight just does not do this unit justice.

Piernik, can't wait to see your version.

Sealman, never read 'Poland", but "GP" is more like history. Also, if you want another good read on the subject (this one is a novel), try the Trilogy (With Fire And Sword, The Deluge, and Fire in the Steppe) by Sienkiewicz.

"Clash: Didn't everyone get run over by the Mongols? Poland is a more deserving Civ then say, Canda (no offense to our brothers and sisters in the North)"

...or the Zulus for another example. If it was not for the bloody wars the British fought with them, I bet they would be another "goodie hut". ...not that I am complaining, I love shearing the world with that bad boy Shaka.


Cheers,

Jack

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Winged Hussar
...or the Zulus for another example. If it was not for the bloody wars the British fought with them, I bet they would be another "goodie hut". ...not that I am complaining, I love shearing the world with that bad boy Shaka.

The more Civs the better. As far as the Zulus, they independently invented the concept of "pitched warfare" (as the term is used by Keegan). The fact that they created a large empire in the interior of Africa, as well as their battles against the British, certainly qualify them as a Civ. However, other African Civs had much greater long-term effects, including the Nubians.

 

[spincrus]

Well, I think among the Spanish, Turks and the Mongols, another civ that deserved to be in the game was Poland (I am a Turk, so, this opinion of mine is VERY objective as you can see :crazyeyes)

I understand your cause and agree with you.

However, I don't mean any offense here, but when I see people say "Finland should be in the game!!!" or "Brazil should be in the game!!", then we have to hit the breaks there...

 

[tpasmall]

Ireland should be in the game!!!!
Someone should make a drunkard to fit in with this (yes i am irish so dont flame me about this

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by tpasmall
Ireland should be in the game!!!!
Someone should make a drunkard to fit in with this (yes i am irish so dont flame me about this

Hey, not all the Irish are drunks. For instance, it turns out that Mohammed Ali is Irish and he doesn't drink (but he does fight).

Happy St. Patrick's Day!

http://www.crownmall.com/holiday/stpatricksday/

 

[Eric The Fish]

WH, what aspects did you give the polish civ (militaristic, commercial, scientific?)? I'm not too familiar with Polish culture so I don't know what atributes to give their civ. And also, now don't get mad at me, but aren't the Russians meant to represent all eastern european civs (i didnt say that was fair). I mean isn't the cossack ukrainian which is very similar to polish? like I said, don't have a fit about my ignorance, my american public school education only equiped me with american and a little eastern european historical knowledge.

 

[sealman]

I'm Polish and my wife is Irish.... She gets drunk and runs over me. (ducking flying bottles)

That was bad and I'm sorry

 

[Winged Hussar]

Hey Eric the Fish,

I made them religious and militaristic - contradiction? Yes, but we are talking about Poland here, hehe.

....and Polish, Ukrainian, and Russian is not the same thing, not by a long shot. Poland always leaned more towards the west, its government was totally different, and it was Roman Catholic for the most part. Also, the cossacks were part of the Polish army at the time when Lithuania and Poland were united as the Commonwealth, but its army was still unique.

Also, Poland (not Russia)was once the major power in central/eastern europe.

Winged Hussar

 

[Piernik]

1st version of Polish Civiliztion is ready Download here

 

[Antex]

Hi all,

nice picture of charging hussars....

 

[sealman]

Originally posted by Piernik
1st version of Polish Civiliztion is ready Download here