Poll: Best Sponser

[Zet]

If I had to go out on a limb and say which will be the civ that brings calls for the most nerfs, I'd say Slavic Federation.

Yes, I think the free early tech could be overpowered. It translates into getting a few siege units out before anyone else even has the tech.

 

[joncnunn]

I think ARC is undervalued here. Sure is would struggle in the early game, but faster spying effectively translates into more stolen techs mid game, which would make ARC the only faction to have a (kinda random) science bonus.

This part is why I see the AI doing well with it.

However on a high difficulty level is it really safe to try to steal techs when it would make the AI mad at you even when you succeed?

With it being on the same engine, I think it's going to keep the AI hypocrisy where the AI will get mad at the human when the human tells them to stop stealing their techs while getting mad at the human when the human steels their techs.

 

[OldEarthRelic]

There don't appear to be RAs. In which case, I think stealing would still be worth it. Especially with the Leaf/Stem system, where there will probably always be something good to get, at least on higher levels.

 

[Karl0413]

Hutama and Polystralia. I am already planning the victory kegger.

 

[Aeson]

From the only example I recall seeing, it worked out to ~16 Energy per turn for the level 1 Espionage mission. That's rather enticing ...

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Just curious about this, since I haven't dug into the details too terribly much. Just how often is a player likely to get a Virtue? Ten turns? Twenty turns? Thirty turns? If it were say 20 turns per, then getting a free tech at Turns 200, 400, 600 etc. may not be as advantageous as some of the other bonuses that take effect _immediately_ and stay in effect throughout the game.

They said ~45 in a long game... So I'm guessing (assuming a long game is ~350-400 turns,
one every 8-9 turns

 

[OldEarthRelic]

Thinking aloud:

45 techs in long game means less than 40 in normal, well played non-dom game. So let's say you get three free techs from FI special ability.

Spying. In Civ 5 diety you could get 5-6 free techs from spying. A 25% boost would be equal to at most 1.5 free techs.

I'm making an assumption that Spying is fairly equal to BNW - it's obviously not:

a)It seems like you get less spies in BE, even if you get as many as you can, but you can beeline them to get them earlier.

b)Spies can do other things. Those "other things" may be more powerful, especially from a domination point of view, in BE than BNW.

But just for science, it appears that FI would be better than ARC. This is different than what I originally thought; that ARC would be very powerful on higher levels. What do y'all think?

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Thinking aloud:

45 techs in long game means less than 40 in normal, well played non-dom game. So let's say you get three free techs from FI special ability.

Spying. In Civ 5 diety you could get 5-6 free techs from spying. A 25% boost would be equal to at most 1.5 free techs.

I'm making an assumption that Spying is fairly equal to BNW - it's obviously not:

a)It seems like you get less spies in BE, even if you get as many as you can, but you can beeline them to get them earlier.

b)Spies can do other things. Those "other things" may be more powerful, especially from a domination point of view, in BE than BNW.

But just for science, it appears that FI would be better than ARC. This is different than what I originally thought; that ARC would be very powerful on higher levels. What do y'all think?

Well we find out in the next livestream

 

[Lights]

I think Franco-Iberia is really underestimated. With the new distrubution of the Tech Tree Tech Web, you can easily grab expensive Techs with that UA.

 

[Lord Shadow]

I think Franco-Iberia is really underestimated. With the new distrubution of the Tech Tree Tech Web, you can easily grab expensive Techs with that UA.

It's safe to assume you won't be able to pick techs you haven't fulfilled the prerequisites for.

 

[CaptainPatch]

They said ~45 in a long game... So I'm guessing (assuming a long game is ~350-400 turns,
one every 8-9 turns

Keep in mind that the limiting factor is the number of Virtues. Skimming the forum, if I am getting this right, there are only 60 Virtues:
That means that provided you acquired all 60 Virtues, you would get at max only 6 free techs.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

It's safe to assume you won't be able to pick techs you haven't fulfilled the prerequisites for.

You only need 1 prerequisite for a tech, so if you have a 1st ring tech, you can pick the 2nd ring tech connected to it. If you have a 2nd ring tech, you can pick the 3rd ting tech

And for any of those you can pick the leaf tech which is more expensive than the stem tech.

Keep in mind that the limiting factor is the number of Virtues. Skimming the forum, if I am getting this right, there are only 60 Virtues:
That means that provided you acquired all 60 Virtues, you would get at max only 6 free techs.

True and in a normal game you would probably get 3 or 4 .. of course if you focus on culture you can get 4 or 5

 

[OldEarthRelic]

I looked at this in the tech web thread - it doesn't look as if the difference is that great. A bit more, but no more than the next ring.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I looked at this in the tech web thread - it doesn't look as if the difference is that great. A bit more, but no more than the next ring.

Each ring is about 2x the cost (although it varies) of the inner ring (and leaf techs are about 2x the cost of the stem techs)

 

[OldEarthRelic]

The tech web graphic shows it's about an equal number of turns. From where do you know it's *2?

 

[joncnunn]

It's safe to assume you won't be able to pick techs you haven't fulfilled the prerequisites for.

Humans are really good unblocking expense techs in time to take advantage of anything granting an entire free tech so it's not going to be a problem when controlled by humans. The AI though is unlikely to fully exploit it.

 

[Aeson]

If it works out to ~8 turns per Virtue, that would be 60 to 80 turns (depending on how many free Virtues you got in that timeframe) for each free tech. While that's pretty nice, I don't think a UA that comes into effect at turn 80 can be considered too powerful, unless it's an "I Win" button ... games can often be decided (and sometimes over) by that point.

 

[GenEngineer]

The tech web graphic shows it's about an equal number of turns. From where do you know it's *2?

The current tech web image is a composite of different images used to show the entire web, rather than just what is 'normally' on screen at any one time. Furthermore, late game, early techs will be worth about the same turns anyway, since you generate a ton of science. From personal obsessive earlier analysis, the beakers costs are, in order, 71 (Habitation leaves), 80 (First ring), 230 (first ring leaves), 360 (second ring), 730 (second ring leaves, some third ring), 1090 (some 4th ring, some third ring leaves) etc... not quite *2 later, but ring jumping does go *4.5 from 2nd ring to 3rd.

 

[OldEarthRelic]

My bad. This makes a free tech much more valuable than in Civ 5, in terms of say, the number of turns you would need to get that tech. This would make FI (and, to a lesser extent, Slavic Fed) more powerful.