Poll: Making Animal-Unique buildings constructable with appropriate Folklore+

Which of the following options are preferred? May choose multiple:


  • Total voters
    24

Blazenclaw

eccentric eclectic
Joined
Sep 19, 2010
Messages
410
This so called "Glut" of animals is directly related to How you play the mod. I.e. how you set up and use the Game set up options. And Preferred gameplay style, everyone has one. Those that complain about micromanaging have created their own problem. And they don't want to admit it. Why? Because it is the way they like to play their favorite Options.
I generally agree with you here, but I think this change is also addressing a slightly different point. Specifically, if a player wants to have animal unique buildings, before this change often they *must* save animals they subdue before researching the appropriate tech because unless they very specifically play with the option that allows animals to spawn inside cultural borders or on a very slow gamespeed, there's no guarantee they'll subdue another before animals stop spawning.
It's not quite so much a "glut" I was trying to prevent, but the *necessity* of holding onto subdued animals if you wanted their unique buildings. Helping the glut was mostly a side effect of reducing the need to hold onto until later.
I have to hunt hard to get the necessary animals for the very important herds. Why? Because I don't use the Options: Peace Among NPCs and Animals Stay out. Instead, I do use the Options Reckless Animals and Dangerous Wildlife.
This is actually fairly similar to how I like to play, with the exception of animals stay out. I generally do not suffer from a glut, but do have to hunt very hard to make sure I get the necessary variety of animals before it is no longer possible.
 

Somebody613

Emperor
Joined
Nov 18, 2019
Messages
1,441
That's NOT what I call "micromanaging animals", though.
What I hate, is having to build 3 horses per city to be used as 3 per-city buildings specifically built via horse units.
And in the beginning you have to manually spread those horses from the one city that has them to everywhere else.
As in literally building horse units and moving them one by one to city after city.
While making perfect sense immersion-wise, it's still an annoying hell gameplay-wise.
And you can't automate animals to seek out cities they could build something in, either.
So this becomes a very much unnecessary time hog for something with very questionable comparative benefits.
Funny enough, this is LESS of a problem on SLOW speeds, since it takes you forever to do anything anyways, so moving units becomes less of a time waste in comparison.
 

Maltazard

Prince
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
319
You still have to hunt for each animal once. It's about less micro management and less luck and randomness in how you acquire and spread animal buildings. Especially since now animal myths are worth 15% of what they used to be, this is a good balance change and less tedious way to do it. Not all changes are bad.
 

Somebody613

Emperor
Joined
Nov 18, 2019
Messages
1,441
If you are not hunting more than half of GH/GG bar, you can get first GG at 25xp.
I often hunt with Combatants, lol, so this is irrelevant.
And it's still possible to capture animals with non-Hunters, just less likely.
But that depends on your game speed anyways - if you play for 1000s of turns, you will eventually capture enough animals anyways, while ALSO getting a few Generals out of it.
It's possible, really.
 

Somebody613

Emperor
Joined
Nov 18, 2019
Messages
1,441
And now I'm once again tempted to run a Solo Space game just to relax from the tediousness of a normal game, loool.
 

cobbaut

Warlord
Joined
Mar 21, 2016
Messages
200
Location
Antwerp
Because I don't use the Options: Peace Among NPCs and Animals Stay out. Instead, I do use the Options Reckless Animals and Dangerous Wildlife.
This sounds like I will change four options when starting my next game. Thanks for the insight.

EDIT: what needs adjusted is the rate animals spawn for those Game speeds that have more than 8000 turns
Yes, while my current game is not so extreme, I did have 4000+ animals in some city in my previous Eons...
 

cobbaut

Warlord
Joined
Mar 21, 2016
Messages
200
Location
Antwerp
Pardon?!
What FOR???
Ah, "saving up for an instant culture boost later on when some new mission becomes available"?
Riiight...
Yes, culture boosting new cities, also some only become useful after a certain tech. Playing on the slowest pace gets you thousands of animals, and some Master Hunters with +1000XP!
 

Somebody613

Emperor
Joined
Nov 18, 2019
Messages
1,441
Yes, culture boosting new cities, also some only become useful after a certain tech. Playing on the slowest pace gets you thousands of animals, and some Master Hunters with +1000XP!
On a custom map, or on Pit's Earth?
Because I did play Eternity a few times, but I don't recall getting THIS many animals (well, I wasn't saving them up, but I'd feel the difference between "dozens" and "thousands", lol).
 

cobbaut

Warlord
Joined
Mar 21, 2016
Messages
200
Location
Antwerp
On a custom map, or on Pit's Earth?

Custom map, largest size + 50% I think, and you need lots of land to hunt. I think I passed 3000+ animals in a couple of games, always on slowest pace (is that Eternity?)

I removed my custom enlargement of this map now, since I seem to run into memory problems often after 5K turns.
 

Maltazard

Prince
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
319
On an ideal playthrough a new settler convoy in the ancient era includes several animal units to immediately boost the new city. I want a bird for feather builder's hut, a game unit for hunter's lodge, a turtle, a couple snakes, as many different herd building animals as possible, some exotic animals for governor's pets/menagerie, etc... it's quite the list overall. Since they don't have an upkeep, I don't mind stocking up. Now with these new changes however, I don't need to - it's optional. Less micro management. This is a good change.
 

Somebody613

Emperor
Joined
Nov 18, 2019
Messages
1,441
On an ideal playthrough a new settler convoy in the ancient era includes several animal units to immediately boost the new city. I want a bird for feather builder's hut, a game unit for hunter's lodge, a turtle, a couple snakes, as many different herd building animals as possible, some exotic animals for governor's pets/menagerie, etc... it's quite the list overall. Since they don't have an upkeep, I don't mind stocking up. Now with these new changes however, I don't need to - it's optional. Less micro management. This is a good change.
I see I haven't played enough Eternity games yet, lol.
Or maybe I played it way too crowded (with all 40 civs on the de-Spaced Snofru's Duel Space map, ya know), so I had very different pressing issues than "how to boost my new cities", lol.
I might soon-ish try Pit's Earth on Eternity Nightmare again, just as a proof of the concept.
Not sure whether I'll keep the Egyptians for it, though - they do provide a relatively easy second city with Stone, but it becomes a bit too much of a directed focus, which defies the goal then.
At first, I used to straight up trade Egypt for Israel (it's basically almost the same location, except for the Natural Wonders boost, lol), but now I erase Native Indians (redundant name) instead.
 

Maltazard

Prince
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
319
I used to play on snail, now I prefer long or normal. Overall, if anything, I'd increase the spawn rate of animals, there are still many rare animals that are hard to come by and it's not like you can set up hunting expeditions to other continents, so if the biomes are on a different continent, you're never getting certain animals, ever.
 

cobbaut

Warlord
Joined
Mar 21, 2016
Messages
200
Location
Antwerp
, so if the biomes are on a different continent, you're never getting certain animals, ever.
Which I prefer! Each game should be different, each game I am missing certain useful animals, now it is deer, often it is turtles and mammoth. I like it, cause having every animal in every game is no fun.
 

Maltazard

Prince
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
319
In theory I'd be ok with different civs having different animals, by regional differences, if we also had realistic continents shapes and somewhat accurate historical development of civilization, but if you have starting civs all over the map, it becomes another element of random number generator luck that can skew things. Besides, it's not like you can hunt all the way up to the 1800s as it is in real life - maybe there should be an option to allow wild animals to spawn inside national borders then.

Probably on an earth map it's not such a big deal. On some mapscripts, it's quite frustrating (which is why I always stick to the same one or two as well).
 

Blazenclaw

eccentric eclectic
Joined
Sep 19, 2010
Messages
410
Dangerous Wildlife does exactly this.
Only downside is that animals will block tiles and give annoying notifications constantly.

The culture work I've been doing, that seems to have ended up being something of an overhaul, might present another option though in that borders will expand far more slowly when realistic culture and one tile start is on, which hopefully should preserve spots of unclaimed territory until much later than the current late ancient era or whenever it is that all tiles are claimed.

Granted players can always put forts/watchtowers on unclaimed spots, but as Joseph was saying, players play as they want.

Though maybe a different option would be to establish peace with animals at certain tech, but have the hunter line still able to fight them - like a faction-specific hidden nationality? Not a trivial implementation, though.
 
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