EquinoxOmega
Scientist
I usually build a defensive unit first(because of Barbarians) and then a settler to build a other city.
Poll: What's the first thing you build in your first city?
- Thread starter Bestbank Tiger
- Start date
6K Man, thanks for the info. This is very useful detail. If you have a link to the original research handy, I will appreciate seeing it.
6K Man
Bureaucrat
Of course. Many people here are Aployton members as well.Are we allowed to link to Apolyton?
The link you provided is broken though. I suspect the "..." near the end.
6K Man
Bureaucrat
Works fine for me. If it doesn't for you, try searching for the thread titled "A study of Hut Outcomes" by samson.
ummmm........
Extremely normal.
Link works for me as well . . .
It is indeed working now. I am sure it was broken back when I said it since I tried it several times. Maybe it was a problem with the Apolyton site. Anyway, thanks again for the link.
6K Man
Bureaucrat
I used to love the premined city site for my first city, on the rare occasion that the sweet spot for founding was a hill.
I have never found the holy grail for this exploit - a rivered hill to premine.
Even when you start with two settlers? If so, have you analyzed the decision carefully ? IIRC I usually sweat over the decision in that case, but usually decide not to use the trick. BTW - Good to see you're still around!
6K Man
Bureaucrat
It's less of a decision when I have managed to tip a hutful of gold (150).
Under normal circumstances, it's hard to justify.
I love size 1 settler trick, but I do not think the size 1 settler is a good decision without cash on hand and a visible whale. The whale is such an advantage at the start that switching away from it is unjustifiable.
With 2 settlers, there are plenty of things to do (road to a new city site; road food tiles; irrigate wheat, etc) before the second settler pops out.
There are of course times when it is not advantageous, mostly created by DoM in starting positions.
So in those cases, I do the size 1 trick on principle.
There are of course times when it is not advantageous, mostly created by DoM in starting positions.
So in those cases, I do the size 1 trick on principle.
Rowan
Warlord
rrhal
Warlord
first thing I do is build a warrior - I get unhappiness at size 2 so I need something to calm down the citizenry. Then I build a settler to go and make a new city.
You can start with a settler and just before going to size two you can convert the worker to an entertainer. I was going to say that logic [*** edit *** I meant to say "that your logic", not "that logic"] was suspect but then I took a look at the numbers below (assume all you have available are shielded grasslands with two food, one shield and no trade arrows per worked square)
Warrior first
6 turns before size 2, 12 shields (warrior after 5 turns and 2 shields on settler)
6 turns before size 3, 18 shields (20 shields on settler)
3-4 more turns before the settler comes
Thus 15-16 turns before having a warrior, settler and size 3 city
Settler first
6 turns before size 2, 12 shields
12 turns before size 3, 24 shields (because of the entertainer)
2 more turns before the settler comes
3-5 more turns before the warrior comes
Thus 23-25 turns before having a warrior, settler and size 3 city with the settler first able to move only after 20 turns
Off-hand, I'd say that you might want to look for trade arrows and up your luxury rate so that you don't have to build the warrior first.
rrhal
Warlord
Warrior first looks like a better deal to me.
Warrior First:
4000BC found City work 2x(2xFood/1xshield) tiles
2xfood to feed size 1 city / 2xfood + 2xshield surplus
3750BC
5 turns = 1Warrior + 10 food
3500BC
Pop2 City: 3x(2xFood/1xshield) tiles
4xfood to feed size 2 city / 2xfood + 3xshield surplus
10 turns = 1Warior + 10 shield in build box
3000BC
Pop1 City: 2x(2xFood/1xshield) tiles
3xfood to feed size 1 city + settler / 1xfood + 2xshield surplus
20 turns = 1Warrior + 1 Settler + 20 food in box (Pp2 next turn)
===============================================
Settler first:
4000BC found City work 2x(2xFood/1xshield) tiles
2xfood to feed size 1 city / 2xfood + 2xshield surplus
3500BC
Pop2 City: 2x(2xFood/1xshield) tiles
4xfood to feed size 2 city / 1 Elvis / 0xfood + 2xshield surplus
10 turns = 20 shield in build box
3000BC
Pop1 City: 2x(2xFood/1xshield) tiles
3xfood to feed size 1 city + settler / 1xfood + 2xshield surplus
20 turns = 1 Settler + 0 food in box
Settler first is down a warrior and population after 20 turns.
Warrior First:
4000BC found City work 2x(2xFood/1xshield) tiles
2xfood to feed size 1 city / 2xfood + 2xshield surplus
3750BC
5 turns = 1Warrior + 10 food
3500BC
Pop2 City: 3x(2xFood/1xshield) tiles
4xfood to feed size 2 city / 2xfood + 3xshield surplus
10 turns = 1Warior + 10 shield in build box
3000BC
Pop1 City: 2x(2xFood/1xshield) tiles
3xfood to feed size 1 city + settler / 1xfood + 2xshield surplus
20 turns = 1Warrior + 1 Settler + 20 food in box (Pp2 next turn)
===============================================
Settler first:
4000BC found City work 2x(2xFood/1xshield) tiles
2xfood to feed size 1 city / 2xfood + 2xshield surplus
3500BC
Pop2 City: 2x(2xFood/1xshield) tiles
4xfood to feed size 2 city / 1 Elvis / 0xfood + 2xshield surplus
10 turns = 20 shield in build box
3000BC
Pop1 City: 2x(2xFood/1xshield) tiles
3xfood to feed size 1 city + settler / 1xfood + 2xshield surplus
20 turns = 1 Settler + 0 food in box
Settler first is down a warrior and population after 20 turns.
Now all you need to do is find a city spot with enough trade arrows so that you can up the luxury rate enough to grow to size two without needing a warrior or entertainer. Then you can grow to size two (using 12 food and with 12 shields after six turns) and then size three (using 18 food and with 27 more shields after another nine turns) before possibly needing to turn one of your workers to an entertainer. The following (16th) turn you would have a settler and be back down to size two. Then on the 20th turn you could get your warrior and have a size 2 city (with 4-8 food depending on whether or not the settler had been used to build another city).
Thus the difference between a possibly workable high luxury settler first and low/no luxury warrior first is that the high luxury option has an extra 4-8 food and an extra 4 turns of settler use.
A third alternative is a high luxury warrior first that allows a warrior to instead spend a number of turns exporing trying to tip a decent hut.
Thus the difference between a possibly workable high luxury settler first and low/no luxury warrior first is that the high luxury option has an extra 4-8 food and an extra 4 turns of settler use.
A third alternative is a high luxury warrior first that allows a warrior to instead spend a number of turns exporing trying to tip a decent hut.
Sounds like you are playing at Diety level. I'm guessing the poll was about lower levels; otherwise, building a unit first is probably a no-brainer. I haven't read the suggestion about using an entertainer carefully, but am almost certain the loss of productivity would be more costly than building a warrior.
rrhal
Warlord
I found that (at deity) in order for the second citizen in a city to not cause unhappiness you can raise the luxury rate to 60% if that city generates 3 trade arrows. If you have whales (for instance) available then you can indeed build a settler first. It takes three turns to build a road so you could use the other settler to build two roads before founding city number 2 but this takes longer than just building a warrior.
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