Possible collaborative project: Truly Heroic Mod

[FexFX]

Is it just not showing the correct prereqs, or is it not recognizing them at all?

It is neither showing them nor recognizing them

You may begin researching Sailing, and Boat building without having fishing even tho the order stated in the file lists Fishing as an OrPrereq for Boat building and Boat building as an OrPrereq for Sailing.

 

[CivalGanjaman]

with regards to the current jumble mess in tech screen, i had this problem too on my mod under construction, very similar to yours LOL.

I found this to be due to the way in which techs lead to other techs. For example the fishing tech leads to Mysticism, the game finds it very hard to cleanly draw this arrow onto the tech chart due to the positioning of both those techs on the grid.

I had to spend around 4 hours just rearranging the tech chart to get a clean tech advisor screen.

My mod is basically the same as yours lol and even has some of the same techs you have added. although still in early development and im going away for 3 weeks tomorow so will soon fall behind yours .

And try playing around with and/or requisites, look at theology for exaples, as this has arrows from 2 of the techs and none from writing, giving you an idea how to do this.

 

[FexFX]

Load up my mod and take a look...
I dont think you grasp the scope of the problem...

My "math" is right...My "programming" is right...My Grid Positions are correct...
But several techs refuse to even recognize their prereqs and several others have the wrong prereqs in spite of the xml!! And those who recognize their techs have arrows that look like they wre drawn by a programmer on crack!

 

[CivalGanjaman]

umm, start again, add 1 tech in at a time and make sure the arrows are ok as you go. I can see problems with fishing > Mysticism for example, how did you want that arrow drawn as the grid positioning causes the arrow to cross other arrows causing a little jumble.

As for the arrows going off the bottom, no clue, never seen that before. Im a noob at modding myself so thats the only advice i can give, i tried looking at your XML's but after 15 min gave up (they look ok)

 

[FexFX]

umm, start again, add 1 tech in at a time and make sure the arrows are ok as you go. I can see problems with fishing > Mysticism for example, how did you want that arrow drawn as the grid positioning causes the arrow to cross other arrows causing a little jumble.

As for the arrows going off the bottom, no clue, never seen that before. Im a noob at modding myself so thats the only advice i can give, i tried looking at your XML's but after 15 min gave up (they look ok)

I'm actually less worried about the arrows than by the fact that the game is flat out refusing to recognize that there are ANY pre-reqs for Boat Building or Sailing...

 

[FexFX]

I think I have have figured out their logic...implementation will be a nightmare...

 

[Finarfin]

How so? Maybe using the term "logic" for what they have done is premature?

 

[Mylon]

I had some difficulty with the 2 techs I introduced. The only thing I can think of is either the file doesn't like comments in it, the goody tag can interfere with prerequisites, or the x,y coordinates (unlikely) can interfere with coordinates.

 

[FexFX]

How so? Maybe using the term "logic" for what they have done is premature?

ROFL...
After closer analysis, the logic I thought the were using breaks down around Code of laws...At that point my percieved pattern is smashed completely.

Phantom patterns are going to make this harder than necessary!

 

[kelmer]

Alphard

• Retain a sense of historical accuracy. I actually think that this is a really important consideration. Indeed, if one reflects upon Man's true history from circa 8000 BC (my suggested starting date for this mod), there was (as you correctly state) very little early contact between the various cultures. This probably only occurred several thousand years later. I agree that it could be an extremely interesting gameplay exercise (as well as historically accurate) to actively encourage the early separate development of the various ingame civilizations.
  
  I suppose that playing THREE or FOUR civilizations on a really big map would facilitate this process!!

In reply to your suggestions:

LIST=1

Possibly some form of increased attrition outside of one's cultural boundary (possibly Barbarians) might prevent too much early exploration beyond one's (fairly) safe confines. Maybe the Scout should only become available considerably later in the game?

LIST=2

This suggestion is beginning to sound rather a lot like my earlier scenario suggestion of "Just me and the Barbarians".

One thing that may be possible that sprung to mind for me. In order to restrict contact far beyond cultural borders perhaps there is a way to flag land x units away from 'any' border as 'wilds'. Somewhat like early boats cannot enter the ocean. Have the 3 or 4 spaces from your border be flagged as non enterable until the discovery of a renassiance era tech like navigation. In this way if you did happen to have a neighbor your units could enter their lands as its been somewhat tamed, even if by barbarians. This would limit expansion and exploration until the exploration era truly happened in our history. Considering most units have a movement of 1 and the turns mentioned will be about 6 years that'd still be 18-24 years outside of the cultural effect of your empire, and therefore without help or supplies.

As an aside for this, imo the first cultural expansion should happen at the same culture rate. But the following ones should expand at an increasing rate. iirc the first 3 in vanilla civ 4 are 10, 100, and 500 but in LITTLE maybe 10, 250, 1500 culture?

 

[FexFX]

Okay, I have finally finished re-ordering my tech chart...

And I added quite a few techs in the process!

I am now at 65 new Techs, 35 changed techs, 51 unchanged techs...

Thats a total of 151 techs which is 75.5% more than the original game.

As should be expected, most of these techs are loaded into the front half ofthe game since the front half will almost always be longer in an expanded game.

I can now attempt implementation once more!

 

[Finarfin]

Good luck. Your cracking of their "logic" will doubtlessly benefit others as well.

 

[Son of Moose]

Kelmer

Thank you so much for your idea.

Yes .... we might well be able to employ something similar to your suggestion in order to limit too much early exploration.

 

[Son of Moose]

FexFX

CONGRATULATIONS!!

I have recently downloaded Stankarp's excellent Ages of Man mod for CTP 2. Perhaps, your time permitting, you should consider downloading this 550+ MB file from the Apolyton CTP 2 forum. This mod features a pretty long Ancient and Medieval period .... although nowhere as long as that proposed by this mod.

I am really impressed with this mod .... maybe you might be able to obtain some more ideas after playing a prolonged scenario? Most certainly Ages of Man is way deeper than Vanilla CIV.

 

[FexFX]

FexFX

CONGRATULATIONS!!

I have recently downloaded Stankarp's excellent Ages of Man mod for CTP 2. Perhaps, your time permitting, you should consider downloading this 550+ MB file from the Apolyton CTP 2 forum. This mod features a pretty long Ancient and Medieval period .... although nowhere as long as that proposed by this mod.

I am really impressed with this mod .... maybe you might be able to obtain some more ideas after playing a prolonged scenario? Most certainly Ages of Man is way deeper than Vanilla CIV.

I havent owned CTP in ages.
So I wouldn't be able to even look at it!
I am cleaning up the Spread Sheet for presentation right now, and filling in some blanks...when it is all pretty I will upload it here for the perusal of others.

 

[FexFX]

Okay, mere minutes ago I jsut finished the RE-implementation of the techs I had already attempted to implement once before when I ran into this mess.

I am still at work and will be fore several hours more...but I will know tonight if my new methodology works!

I am cautiously optimistic!

 

[FexFX]

hmmm looks like I never posted here...but I got things to work!
They are not cosmetically perfect, since some of the lines merge funny, but it is 100% functional.
Beauty is a seoncdary concern and can be dealt with separatly! At any rate I have figured it out! Yay Me!

 

[Finarfin]

Bravo! Keep up the good work!

 

[Mylon]

Woah, that's a lot of new technologies. Mind spoiling us with a few details on what you intend to do with the expanded tech tree?

 

[FexFX]

Gimme a bit more time to tinker with it...
I am still ironging out details on the tail end of things...

I should have something for you next week for sure.

Perhaps a full copy of the XLS I am using.

At this point I need to re-order some thigns to fit the schema I described above.

Right now I have several instances of more than one branch above or below and its resulting in a few ugly lines.
but the lines all function and that's much more important!