Post Summer patch, is the AI too friendly?

[Zenstrive]

Well, I basically neglected Civ VI for like three months, and is pleasantly surprised to find that afte the last update, I can build districts with no fuss, doesn't take long to construct everything, and the AIs are friendlier. Even Montezuma doesn't declare war toward me.
This feels like Civ V post Brave New World, the most enjoyable Civ V version ever.
I for one welcome this peace. War is very messy in Civ VI.

 

[Pythakoreas]

I don't think that's new, though. I'll often end with everyone as my friends except Gorgo. **** Gorgo.

It's definitely new. I can't even count how many times I've complained about the "broken diplomacy AI" which "feels like doing a calculus homework trying to please them"
Even if the modifiers are clearly in favor of Friendly they were always Neutral or Unfriendly. If you accidentally did something that went against their agenda or Warmongering Penalty exceeds 20 (happens very easily in Atomic/Information) that is it, Denounced. I get Denounced for taking about 4 enemy Cities (from 3 different Civs who ganged up on me) so that I can get a peace deal favorable to me in a defensive war.

So after reading this post I went back to Civ6. Every. Single. AI. suggests that I should be a Friend. Even the ones who were unfriendly before changed their minds. Before I even sent them a trade delegation Gilgamesh thinks we should be friends.

.... Whaaaat?
What happened to the "-4 for 'unknown reason'" that got me every time?
Is this G&K aggressive AI vs. BNW peaceful AI debates all over again?


Footnote: I ragequit that game in Classical Era so I'm not in a position to talk about the entire game

 

[TheFourthDoctor]

I've just finished a game and have had a similar experience to some posters.

I found the AIs to be very friendly as well. For pretty much the entire game. There was one joint declaration of war, but that was soon over. I didn't get a sense of any rising hostility as I approached by cultural victory, as promised in the patch notes.

On the other hand, I also found it impossible to form an alliance. For most of the game, the civs refused to negotiate. But towards the end they were prepared to ally for something like 400 gold per turn! I refused that.

I also think that the AI no longer properly values art works. First, sometimes they'd voluntarily offer an art work as part of a trade. But that was rare and I'd seen it pre-patch, so not a real worry. But soon I found that they'd be happy to give away art for 1 lux or bonus resource - it didn't seem to matter what. Then I found that I could pile on pretty much all of their artworks to a mundane trade, and they were happy to give it all away! Seriously. The only limit was whether I had space for the art! It took the heat out of the cultural victory and competing for great people because I knew that I could just take it from them as they acquired works of art.

 

[Victoria]

Too friendly? well I was used to the pre patch way of playing where they were unfriendly at the start and you had to win them over which was not too hard if you knew what you were doing... it was fun and it feel like they have removed the skill level out of it. I think they can fix it, just a matter of a few tweaks here and there but as it stands its just too simple. Deity is a little tougher but in reality it should be a lot tougher if we compare other settings.

What annoys me is the deals, in particular the peace deals. I was replaying GOTM 19 where it took about 15 turns to take out Spain on the first run through. This time I killed two warriors then tried for peace because of what I had read and they gave away their 2 new cities leaving just their capital. When I got knights up it was beyond bad. Walk up to a civ, bash them a bit, take their cities in a deal and off to the next one. I was hoping they made domination harder in the patch and instead its become a strategy (tragedy?) of taking candy off kids

 

[Uncle_Joe]

Why is everyone happy with a 'friendlier' AI? All that means that the wars becomes exclusively on the timetable for the player and not the other way around. When Civ5 BNW released, the same thing happened with the AI and to me, it destroyed the game. It allowed me to cash in not really needing to build much of a military for a large chunk of the game.

So while I'm cranking up my econ, the AI is wasting time and production pumping out military units which I avoided. To make the AI competitive, I had to crank the artificial bonuses, but still didn't have to worry much about war.

If the AI is overly friendly, it simply means that the it's one additional way that the player has a serious advantage. It's not stopping the players from attacking the AI when they want to gain an advantage, but it just means that the player doesn't have to spend on 'guns or butter' and can just choose butter the vast majority of the time.

For me, the most fun games are the ones where I have to do the delicate balancing act with my production and I have to sit on pins and needles through times where I am vulnerable to attack. If I don't ever feel threat of attack, the game becomes SimCiv instead.

 

[MrRadar]

Well, my first game as Nubia (Emperor/Continents) was a walk in the park. Everybody: Germany, China, Egypt (my continent); Persia, Macedon (other continent) were friendly to me, except Kongo on my continent. Arabia, whom I took out, also wanted a DOF with me, but I did have to try my Pitati on someone, and they were the closest, sorry Sal. Apart from the initial rush on the city states, there was not very much warfare, except Kongo and Egypt kept nibbling at China and Kongo took it out completely at some point (4 cities). So I went and liberated it, because Kongo became a bit too large with China annexed. After that, Mvemba a Nzinga also became my pal, because he liked my liberating of cities. I was kinda expecting to see some planes, but no luck, just empty airports as before.

Now I'm 100 turns in my second game, (Brazil/Immortal/Pangea), there's a little bit less friendliness around, and I've seen not so many city states conquered, but...
My closest neighbour Pericles was first to offer me a DOF on the basis on me not interfering with the city states. After that, he was staging large scale chariot races just across my border, most probably for my pleasure and to give some entertainment to his warriors, who were amassed nearby.
I also signed a DOF with France in the north, after me sending a delegation to them. Since then, its renewal is just a formality due to +9 for 'declared friend'.
I took those precautions because to the west and south-west of me I found the Aztecs and Macedon. Only... Macedon is stagnating with two cities, I saw he had a third settler, but he couldn't find a spot so far, probably. And Aztecs keep running a couple of Eagles around, but do not do very much else. I broke a promise not to settle nearby, so Monty protested in very strong terms, even denounced me, as befits a true and fearless warrior, of course. So I settled another city in his vicinity, and will now wait for his reaction.

All in all, it's a somewhat eerie feeling. It is like these situations, when it is too good to be true and something bad is bound to happen very soon, but... in never happens Anyway, diplomacy will have to be mended again. It was made better pre-Summer patch, but this patch broke it quite badly again. If AI were too unfriendly just after the game's release, now they are ready be your vassals right from the start.

I forgot to mention that I completed my pantheon with an early relic, which I bought from Pericles for 1 gold. Now I'm thinking, would it be possible to buy things for zero gold? If you just put 0? Or even for negative values, with a '-' in front of a number? (Can't check this atm, at work now.)

 

[agonistes]

Current game I had alot of dows on me early. But I did some settler farming.

I can get people happy, but can only get maybe 2 or 3 dofs out of 20 civs.

I'm seeing plenty of enemy troops.

Balance between aggression and peaceful diplomacy seems about right, to me, in current game.

 

[Victoria]

I can get people happy,

Can you get Allies?
If so do they seem harder to get earlier

 

[Hep Roc Heretic]

Small sample size, but it does seem that everyone is a little friendlier. I'm not used to having so many friends. Sorta makes up for the Barbarians who seem to be more aggressive.

I'm using a missionary and an apostle as scouts and neither have been challenged in a religious battle yet -- I find that a little unusual.

When two AIs go to war, they aren't just pillaging, they are taking cities with regularity -- Vicky just took out Monty. It has been a while since I've seen anyone take a city, much less knock out another civ much past the ancient or classical era (game is presently in industrial era).

Oh yeah, definitely more lakes out there. Land O'Lakes, indeed.

 

[Duckfromstatefarm]

For some reason, I see the AI turn out to be more friendly in the games I played except one leader so far....Gorgo. She's the only leader that hasn't liked me from the start and as of civs that gotten more aggressive haven't seen any towards me yet, but i'll need to play more and see if they do get more aggressive towards me.

 

[Locke_Daemonfire]

What annoys me is the deals, in particular the peace deals. I was replaying GOTM 19 where it took about 15 turns to take out Spain on the first run through. This time I killed two warriors then tried for peace because of what I had read and they gave away their 2 new cities leaving just their capital. When I got knights up it was beyond bad. Walk up to a civ, bash them a bit, take their cities in a deal and off to the next one. I was hoping they made domination harder in the patch and instead its become a strategy (tragedy?) of taking candy off kids

Yeah, this is the most serious issue now, imo. I'm in a game now where I declared war on Russia, but have not destroyed a single unit or seiged a city. Yet he's willing to give me all his cities, money, and great works for peace. I guess it's because my military score is much higher, but he's currently under no threat.

 

[dhialuck]

I have been annoyed by the passivity of the AI towards me as well. I am playing an immortal game and did not build a single military unit and yet I had 0 wars the entire game. In fact out of the 20 civilizations in the game 17 have a declaration of Friendship with me, and they are the ones that initiated it
Needless to say I managed to build my economy and spam defenseless cities with no walls or military and lead the game..
Maybe we can solve this issue easily by editing the AI likeliness to declare war in one of the game files? does anyone know where to find such variables? or maybe a mod that only makes the AI more aggressive..

 

[Uncle_Joe]

I have been annoyed by the passivity of the AI towards me as well. I am playing an immortal game and did not build a single military unit and yet I had 0 wars the entire game. In fact out of the 20 civilizations in the game 17 have a declaration of Friendship with me, and they are the ones that initiated it
Needless to say I managed to build my economy and spam defenseless cities with no walls or military and lead the game..
Maybe we can solve this issue easily by editing the AI likeliness to declare war in one of the game files? does anyone know where to find such variables? or maybe a mod that only makes the AI more aggressive..

This is EXACTLY the thing that ruined Civ5 BNW for me. No military needed except Barbarian patrol. Too easy to just boom out the econ and win unless the AI is getting ridiculous bonuses. I'd prefer there to be threat to keep me in line, not insane crutch bonuses.

 

[bbbt]

I really don't know why they just don't implement like an 'aggressiveness' slider in the options. It seems like a relatively straightforward thing to do, and civ players seem half and half on whether they want more aggressive civs or not.

 

[agonistes]

Can you get Allies?
If so do they seem harder to get earlier

Well, I'm playing another Russian tsl, so I can't give open borders. So I haven't tried an alliance and won't. Lack of OB also probably hurt my dof attempts - yet even so, I felt that some civs were just more resistant to dof.

edit: and then Poland culture bombed me. We know where that went. And China managed to settle 5 cities in Soviet lands before I could get my border wall up. Aaaand we know where that went. Then Rome took Germany's last city. So I'm looking at mostly red faces atm.

edit 2: interestingly, Poland's capital is now Aachen.

edit3: be even more interesting to have one city be the capital of 5 or 6 civs, then liberate it. Wonder if the game would implode. I also wonder if its getting double palace bonuses.

 

[dexters]

Can you get Allies?
If so do they seem harder to get earlier

Have you been able to get allies?

I can get friend status, but not alliances. I was just playing pre-patch and alliances was possible before the patch hit. Alliances seems broken to me.

 

[Victoria]

Have you been able to get allies?

Yes but not early, it's like you have to be squeaky clean