PRE-Civilization mod?

[John DiFool2]

An idea just hit me, when I was reading about possible competition between
Neanderthals and Cro-Magnons in Europe-a pre-civilization mod! You are
the chief of a primitive tribe of primitive man (genus Homo), and you have
to guide your descendants to the dawn of civilization. Technologies might
include Rock Tool Making, Fire Using (then Fire Making!), Basic Hunting (w/ rocks),
followed by more advanced hunting techniques as you discover spears and then
bows and arrows. We already have animals running around in the game-send a
Hunter unit out there to kill them (presumably for both food and axes)-it might
be kind of fun to stalk a herd of mammoths or something (perhaps if you overhunt
them they go extinct!).

Your tribe could be nomadic-like a portable city, wandering to find better
hunting grounds. The women could be like workers, sent out to forage for
wild rice and tubers as they are found on the map. Find other tribes and
trade tech, goods, and perhaps even brides and grooms! (for better genetic
variance) Hopefully your little tribe will be able to evolve over the eons and
become the first one to move into the "Ancient" civilization era-at which point
the main game can take over and all the poor saps who are still backwards
would become "barbarians." I suppose the timeline would be on the order of
100,000 years, with 100 year turns?

Please tell me I'm not the first one to think of this. I'm just a humble player
who has been playing this series off and on for a decade and barely know the
first thing about modding something like this. But it would be pretty killer,
wouldn't it?

 

[Gaius Octavius]

Don't know if you're the first to think of this or not, but it sounds like a great idea! I've always thought that civ could've been improved a bit in the early stages, particularly in the time before there was true civilization. I imagine some of the code could even be lifted from the Warlords scenarios--the barbarian and Mongolian scenarios have a camp feature very much like what you described.

One question: What are your thoughts on how the tech tree will advance, considering that the current format requires a city to be built before research can take place?

 

[John DiFool2]

Well, the "tribe" (city) would be "mobile", if the game engine allowed it. You're
talking about a group of hunter-gatherers, nomadic in their lifestyles, moving
from area to area as needs require.

Well, this extremely preliminary outline is what I have for now:

Units
----------
Scout
Hunter
Warrior
Forager
Shaman? (prob. best subsumed into the Tribe screen like specialists are now).

Since the roles in primitive society were very fluid and undifferentiated, I'm a bit
uncomfortable dividing the labor up into 3 different "male" roles (note no sexism
involved). I guess I'm envisioning "scouts" as similar to what we have now-
more mobile, less able in combat. "Hunters" would get bonuses vs. animals,
while "Warriors" would do better vs. other human units. Really the bonuses
would probably be modest. Foragers would perform tasks similar to what
Workers do well.

Techs
--------------------

Fire Path
--------
Basic Fire Use
Advanced Fire Use
Fire Making

Fire would be available as a short term resource, usually found after a thunder-
storm. Basic Fire Use would involve a short-term benefit from the fire, while
with Advanced you can carry the coals around with you long-term (like in the
movie Quest for Fire). Fire Making would let you make your own fires.

Tool/Weapon Path
---------
Basic Stone Tools
Advanced Stone Tools
Spears
Slings
Bows and Arrows
Horse-Riding

Basic Stone-you have a rock and know how to use it. Advanced-you can chip
and carve stone into desired shapes. Rest are pretty much obvious-units
could be updated into new units via a small price in terms of Civ Axes.

Cultural Path
---------
Music
Dancing
Singing
Ceremonial Burial
Painting (caves and such)
[Funky Mushrooms?]
Etc.

Very preliminary-would probably include more stuff.

Religious Path
---------
Non-
Animalism
Totemism
Polytheism

Diplomatic Path
---------
No speech
Hand/body signals
Speech
Primitive written symbols

"Diplomatic" for lack of a better term, as practical benefit is communicating
with other tribes, in conjunction with

Economic Path (again loose term)
---------
Non-
Trading
Barter
Money


Gameplay As I See It
--------------------

Okay-you're the leader of a tribe of primitive humans. The tribe is mobile,
with "cultural" boundaries starting out in the typical 3x3 pattern, Foragers
able to work within said boundaries. Of the 3 base resources, only Axes and
Beakers (probably should look and be named like something else) would count
until the Money tech is invented. The Scouts (2x movement) go out and try
to find game-all animals in the mod should be mobile, predators AND prey, tho
they should tend to be found in appropriate habitats. Killing an animal would
provide you with shields, some tech, perhaps some culture, and later some
floating capital for trade with other tribes. A bear could certainly kill your
units but would provide a bit of the above if killed (they can enter the tribe's
boundaries). Foragers would dig up various vegetable stuffs.

Meet up with another tribe and a lot of distrust should be evident. Maybe
later you can trust the infidel enough to trade him some beaver skins for
some bear skulls. Probably need an inventory screen of some sort for all the
goods you're carrying around (again not sure how this would work within the
game system).

Well there's a few other things I probably forgot to mention but that's the
bare bones. Anyone else have any thoughts?

 

[hamtastic]

I think you should check out this thread. Maybe you can revive the interest?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=187657

 

[thomas.berubeg]

Would this eventually end up at the normal game?

 

[John DiFool2]

Thanks for the link. Too bad the concept apparently died.

 

[Goldenerasuburb]

I have some ideas for the tech tree advancing. Progress is made in technology by individuals within the tribe. Instead of their being a specific class dedicated to research, everyone is capable of innovation, some more than others. This Innovation ability comes into play when you have the right tools at the right places at the right time. For instance, having wood nearby a fire will allow you to harness said fire for oneself. Each failed attempt to innovate, leaves some research points indicating that your tribe is learning from it's mistake. But if it succeeds, then it gains the tech. To succeed a member of your tribe's innovative ability is pit against the difficulty involved in comprehending a phenomenon or task.


As leader of the tribe you can choose to accept the new invention or innovation, or to have the tribe reject it.
One thing hope to add involving this is an adaptation of the very tech tree concept. In a typical civ game tech advancement is uniformly good. I am hoping on adding negative aspects to certain techs, whether it involves ecological problems, human welfare issues, or whatever. Because we all know that tech can have it's bad sides. So a tribe leader would have to weigh out the pros and cons of each development. The advisors would each try to pull the tribal leader to one side or another. What do you think?

 

[Goldenerasuburb]

I have some ideas for the tech tree advancing. Progress is made in technology by individuals within the tribe. Instead of their being a specific class dedicated to research, everyone is capable of innovation, some more than others. This Innovation ability comes into play when you have the right tools at the right places at the right time. For instance, having wood nearby a fire will allow you to harness said fire for oneself. Each failed attempt to innovate, leaves some research points indicating that your tribe is learning from it's mistake. But if it succeeds, then it gains the tech. To succeed a member of your tribe's innovative ability is pit against the difficulty involved in comprehending a phenomenon or task.


As leader of the tribe you can choose to accept the new invention or innovation, or to have the tribe reject it.
One thing hope to add involving this is an adaptation of the very tech tree concept. In a typical civ game tech advancement is uniformly good. I am hoping on adding negative aspects to certain techs, whether it involves ecological problems, human welfare issues, or whatever. Because we all know that tech can have it's bad sides. So a tribe leader would have to weigh out the pros and cons of each development. The advisors would each try to pull the tribal leader to one side or another. What do you think?

 

[Goldenerasuburb]

I have some ideas for the tech tree advancing. Progress is made in technology by individuals within the tribe. Instead of their being a specific class dedicated to research, everyone is capable of innovation, some more than others. This Innovation ability comes into play when you have the right tools at the right places at the right time. For instance, having wood nearby a fire will allow you to harness said fire for oneself. Each failed attempt to innovate, leaves some research points indicating that your tribe is learning from it's mistake. But if it succeeds, then it gains the tech. To succeed a member of your tribe's innovative ability is pit against the difficulty involved in comprehending a phenomenon or task.


As leader of the tribe you can choose to accept the new invention or innovation, or to have the tribe reject it.
One thing hope to add involving this is an adaptation of the very tech tree concept. In a typical civ game tech advancement is uniformly good. I am hoping on adding negative aspects to certain techs, whether it involves ecological problems, human welfare issues, or whatever. Because we all know that tech can have it's bad sides. So a tribe leader would have to weigh out the pros and cons of each development. The advisors would each try to pull the tribal leader to one side or another. What do you think?

 

[strategyonly]

Thread necromancy, after a year and 1/2, WOW!! Well i guess its all up to you now, Goldenerasuburb, have fun.