Pre-emptive Nuclear Strike by the AI

[rustydusty10]

Just started cooking the romans...I love the nuke graphics...mad it doesn't kill all the defenders in the town though....

Yea that sucks!!

 

[jimbob27]

I though that only applied to nukes launched at you, not between AI players?

I could be wrong.

Nah, it happens with all of them. You get about a million of those messages if any barbarians are still alive by the time nukes come around.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Yeah the loud noise thing is an acknowledged bug, it has something to do with a specific modern era naval unit I think, can't remember which one. There's a fix around for it somewhere on the forums if it's annoying you.

When a nuke gets dropped, the screen shakes. That's how you know. It's easy to miss though, (well, unless you also happen to be in the right location to see the mushroom cloud that is).

By the way, a neat trick if you don't know it:

When you launch multiple nukes, if you launch them all together instead of one at a time (by using the shift key to select several of them before you hit the red button), the mushroom cloud gets bigger, the more nukes the bigger the explosion. It doesn't appear to actually do any more damage than launching all of them individually but I haven't thoroughly tested this. The area of effect is definately the same (even though the cloud can cover a whole continent), but I'm not sure whether it improves your odds against SDI and bomb shelters or not.

The noise is actually the "yawn" of the SAM Infantry. It is because the coding in the XML has put their "minimum volume level" is larger than the "maximum volume level" settings. you have to set it to 75 (or a number significantly lower than the Max value). I forget the exact variable. look for it in the Bugs forums

 

[the_sid4]

I find it funny that it seems the AI's tend to use nukes more often my human opponents.

 

[weasel77066]

I think that SDI is too powerfull. 75% takes the fun away from nukes. I think it should either be 33% or make SDI REAL costly. Better yet I would rather see a system similiar to the radar towers of civ3. After you build sdi, you span out your defense system using workers or have a building for inside of city radius. These would intertwine to create a protection zone, then 75% interception INSIDE the protective zone. This way at least you can sabotage, and or capture to open a whole for nukes. I wouldnt think it would be too hard for programming, but Im not a computer type of person... hence the question: Where would I look for the line to change SDI to 33%?

 

[bennos76]

I think that SDI is too powerfull. 75% takes the fun away from nukes. I think it should either be 33% or make SDI REAL costly.

I agree. At least the AI isn't afraid to use them now, but there's still been a bit of complaining that nukes aren't powerful enough. But, I do take the point made by a firaxian somewhere that the nukes are intentionally underpowered, otherwise they upset the game balance too much.

However, with SDI and and bomb shelters, it really does take a fair bit of the fun out of it. Unless you enjoy throwing money way it just doesn't make much sense to build them once people have SDI and bomb shelters, which usually doesn't take that long. And the UN can quickly put an end to everybody's fun (although I do kind of like this aspect, recently had a game where the non-proliferation treaty got revoked twice and reinstalled a third time).

I agree that the SDI should be very costly, I mean look how much money the US has spent on it and still not managed to convince anyone that it will work on even a small scale (let alone the planetwide 75% defense modelled in civ). That said, I also think that ICBMs should be more costly, or require more advanced tech. Even though a lot of countries have the ability to make a warhead now, there are still only a handful that are capable of plonking them down anywhere on the planet within a moment's notice.

I think a good solution would be to bring back something like the civ3 tactical nukes. Launch them from a submarine or one of your border cities. I think it would be best if they packed a smaller punch (don't want to unbalance things too much) but had a much higher chance of getting through the SDI. Perhaps a nearby Aegis cruiser could offer a little extra defense from them if needed. And tone down the bomb shelters a bit, because they really wouldn't make much difference in reality. Anyone that survives the blast ain't exactly gonna be productive members of society for quite a few years anyhow.

 

[kettyo]

Nukes must be underpowered otherwise no one would dare to enter a war in the modern era because you would probably lose much more due to nukes than you could ever gain in the war.
Consider this.

Preemptive nuclear attack would actually mean that you were preparing for an attack yourself and the AI got to know this and took the first strike AFAIK.
It's not too likely.

The only game i have seen real preemptive attacks is Master Of Orion.
There AI players can truly realize that you're amassing a huge fleet nearby and took the initiative to attack you first.
They may first tell you to stop though.

 

[bennos76]

Actually, it would be good to see and Alpha Centauri type SDI. Where you build a bunch of satellites, and each satellite has a chance of intercepting a nuke or can be used to take out an enemy satellite. I think that's how it worked, it's been a long time since I played. I remember it being kind of cool though. Made SDI fun.

 

[Endovior]

Yeah, that's how it worked... and it rocked. Difficult to implement here, though... you're most probably talking SDK work.

 

[enchanter100]

Wait, so making SDI weaker and nukes stronger would make people not want to attack each other due to a nuclear fight?!?! That sounds realistic to me and I love the idea. I miss the planetbusters in Alpha Centauri.

 

[WuphonsReach]

Aye, I'd rather see SDI as a research tech (with multiple levels) then its current implementation. Then you have to build SDI nodes in each city. Which would make them work similar to fighters.

SDI 1 - Installed in the cities and can only protect the core 9 tiles against impact with maybe a 50% chance of success.

SDI 2 - Larger diameter interception area (5 squares), 50% chance.

SDI 3 - Even larger diameter (maybe 8 squares) with 50% chance.

Then you could choose which SDI building to construct in each city. You could even have all 3 SDI buildings in the same city, which would make it very difficult to nuke. Nuking the outskirts of the coverage area would be easier then trying to drop the nuke directly on the city.

Maybe an SDI 4/5/6 tech level where you have satellites that get a 10%/20%/30% chance to intercept anywhere in the world.

...

But then I think we should also get the ability to build MIRVs (evil grin).

 

[kettyo]

Wait, so making SDI weaker and nukes stronger would make people not want to attack each other due to a nuclear fight?!?! That sounds realistic to me and I love the idea. I miss the planetbusters in Alpha Centauri.

It's bloody realistic but not a good idea IMO.
There would be no modern (and post-modern) era wars then and that's not good.
Making wars with mech inf., battleships etc. is way better than ruin each others 6000 years civilization with a few nuclear exchanges.

Although a movable nuke unit like in Civ 1-2-3 would be welcome.
ICBM's should be very expensive.

I like the way it is now too.
You can blast a huge incoming naval ot land stack or could seriously damage a city but it's not overpowered so it's not like destroying your 8 hours work civilization in a few turns nuclear war.