pread nerfed?

[kristopherb]

should the preatorian be nerfed

if yes
1)7st 1m
10%city attack
2)6st 2m
10%city attack
3)6st 1m
50% archers
10%city attack
4)6st 1m
10%city attack
50% melle

 

[PraetorianSteve]

No. The Praetorian is strength 8 for a very good reason. For those who think it's overpowered should just counter the Praetorian with properly promoted Axemen.

 

[Lucky Charms]

Steve just took the words right out of my mouth. Shock axes will deal with any problems with Praetorians that you have.

Also, a bit off-topic, kristopherb, could you please improve your grammar, it is abysmal, and it is always hard or sometimes impossible to understand what you are trying to say.

 

[Thedrin]

Yes, it should. Every other unit in the game can be countered on open ground by an unpromoted unit. Give it defensive bonuses and it wins against all units before crossbows. The extra hammers required to build the praetorian are not enough to make multiple axemen a viable counter without encurring a greater economic disadvantage on the defender.

As for the concept of properly promoted axemen, non aggresive civs (that is, the majority of civs) don't get access to newly-built shock-promoted axemen until they've gotten a great general, feudalism, or theocracy. Facing a war against the Romans there's not going to be a lot of axemen surviving to get to shock. Combat I axemen only have a 50% odds of winning until against unpromoted praetorians in the open ground.

Option 3 is not viable. The immortal works with a 50% bonus against archers because the basic chariot is not designed to be a city raider. The 50% bonus gives it added flexibility - allows it to be used as a city raider. Giving any swordsman variant a bonus against archers is not a good idea.

Option 4 is more overpowered than any unit in the game. Numidian mercenary aside, there is no unit which could take out such a unit with ease.

 

[the Falcon]

…

 

[FoxTrot12]

Shock axes can definetly take praets. But Praetorians are very cool.

 

[ollj]

I want a wakness against melee, less strength and another bonus. Preferably a bonus against archers.

 

[Psyringe]

I actually like the Praetorians *because* they are so powerful. And no, that's not because I'm playing Rome myself (I always play a random civ) . It's because a powerful unit in the enemy's hands spices up my game.

However, I'm not overly concerned with balancing of civs. Whether they are perfectly balanced or not doesn't actually influence my enjoyment of the game. This might be different if I played multiplayer (where balance and fairness is much more of an issue), but since I only play single player ...

 

[Julian Delphiki]

I think praets are overpowered and esp.w/ 2.08 Augustus the combination is just scary. Still, AI does not use that against IsHuman(?) in overpowered way, which leads me to conclusion that there is no point for nerfing them down.

I struggle on prince with Blakes newest incarnations and i just need to kick AI's ass sometimes after getting humped in game before . Then its nice to whoop the world with Rome.

Plus, i learned much about early warring with them. After using them first time it was lot easier do to axe rush with another civ etc. But, everyone should remember that if you always play same civ with same tactics you are not getting anywhere (i am trying to move over Egypt.. its juust lovely).

MP is of course different story, but since its out of my scope.. :|.

 

[azzaman333]

If you can only "whoop the world" with Rome, then the praet is overpowered.

 

[King Flevance]

3)6st 1m
50% archers
10%city attack
4)6st 1m
10%city attack
50% melle

I like these two personally.

What if they were:
6 str 1m
+10% City Attack
+50% vs Archers
+50% vs Melee

?

 

[King Flevance]

Ah yeah. Hehe, that rocks more than I thought earlier.

So far, I like 6 str and +25-50 on both city attack and city defense. That will probably be the route I take eventually on it. Or that's where I am so far.

 

[mutax2003]

Shock promote your praetorians, and the enemy has no response until he gets elephants, then you just have to mix in a couple of spears with your stack.

 

[Lance of Llanwy]

Shock promote your praetorians, and the enemy has no response until he gets elephants, then you just have to mix in a couple of spears with your stack.

Or get a Formation-promoted Praet. An army of properly-promoted Praets needs nothing except some cat support...

 

[Julian Delphiki]

If you can only "whoop the world" with Rome, then the praet is overpowered.

What? Do you mean that i cannot win with other Civs or is that just a general note towards Rome? There is much that can be done with any civ.

 

[SkippyT]

No. The Praetorian is strength 8 for a very good reason. For those who think it's overpowered should just counter the Praetorian with properly promoted Axemen.

In your face Kristopher

 

[Armorydave]

An unpromoted axeman fighting an unpromoted Prat on clear ground is a 7.5 versus 8. Considering axemen are much cheaper and lower down on the tech tree that seems like a more than reasonable counter. No change is necessary IMO and I do not consider the Romans to be amongst the most powerful Civs (even though they have a fine UU).

 

[kristopherb]

No. The Praetorian is strength 8 for a very good reason. For those who think it's overpowered should just counter the Praetorian with properly promoted Axemen.

try a counter a cover preat with a crossbow
10 vs 9

 

[King Flevance]

try a counter a cover preat with a crossbow
10 vs 9

A crossbow comes from the same era too. Classical is Horse Archers(6) Swordsman(6) and Crossbows(6)... I am pretty sure machinery is classical.
There is no classical spear I don't think, but spears can hold out pretty easy.

I don't think any str bonuses should be given in eras as a UU benefit IMO. So, Keshiks would also have to be modified IMO I think. I haven't gotten to Mongolia yet. All in time.

Machinery seems expensive for the classical techs though. Some ways more expensive than early medeival techs.

 

[Antilogic]

My idea was to give them +10% attack and defense in cities, and drop the strength to 7. They are still ungodly strong against cities and for holding them, but in the field they can be beaten by axemen, and thus have a counter.

I don't think giving them a melee bonus is fair unless you consider something like 6 Strength with +25% vs. melee...but even that's pretty strong. I would go with the increased strength idea that Firaxis has used, but just tone it down a little bit.

@Those who say the Praetorian isn't overpowered: I think its strong, definitely, but overpowered...maybe. I've come out against the praetorian before, but recently I haven't bordered Rome early on, so I can't say from 2.08 experience about the balance. Even still, the fact that nothing can counter it in the ancient or classical era is somewhat perturbing.

Also, at Armorydave: it's convenient you ignored the fact that a praetorian will likely win that match. It would probably take two axes to destroy a praetorian, which means you have to double the investment cost there. Typically, with a counter, you are favored to win in a one-on-one match. That isn't true of the axe-praetorian fight.