Pregame discussion for WOTM ? (Warlords of the Month)
- Thread starter Don Vito
- Start date
Well I got warlords last week but I haven't played a full game yet. All of the changes are listed here.
But I am curious more about how these changes affect gameplay so if a warlords veteran could explain how games play out differently with warlords vs vanilla that would be great. I know trebuchets are a huge deal now.
But I am curious more about how these changes affect gameplay so if a warlords veteran could explain how games play out differently with warlords vs vanilla that would be great. I know trebuchets are a huge deal now.
I also predict that the difficulty will be far tamer than the current GOTM (perhaps, fittingly, Warlord?) to start things off.
However, I would rather see it start at Noble. Might I suggest the following:
Vanilla GOTM: Immortal this month, then Diety, then back to Warlord
Warlords GOTM: Noble, Prince, Monarch, ... (to Diety, then back to Warlord)
Then there is always a GOTM that is at a reasonable level.
Sam
However, I would rather see it start at Noble. Might I suggest the following:
Vanilla GOTM: Immortal this month, then Diety, then back to Warlord
Warlords GOTM: Noble, Prince, Monarch, ... (to Diety, then back to Warlord)
Then there is always a GOTM that is at a reasonable level.
Sam
volfan37132
Chieftain
Shillen said:
Actually, there are more changes that are not listed in that link. I don't have
a link for all the changes, but I'll give you a couple of examples.
Chariots now have a +100% bonus against axemen.
Units do not receive bonuses from forts inside foreign territory.
ButSam said:
I don't think it would be fair to have an emperor+ vanilla gotm for the third month in a row. Some people aren't playing both versions. Besides, the vanilla immortal game is already going. So if they have an easy warlords game then it's already doing a hard vanilla and easy warlords game during the month of September. Next month can be an easy vanilla and (relatively) hard warlords. I would say warlords on noble this month, vanilla on prince next month, and warlords on monarch next month. Then vanilla on deity, warlords on prince, then vanilla on noble, warlords on emperor. You get the picture.
drkodos
Emperor
I am really looking forward to the start of the WotM and I will be happy whatever game parameters are set. I am hoping it will be a good representation of what Warlords has to offer and does not include too many "customizations" to the map and the start. I offer profuse thanks to the staff for getting this going.
Shillen said:
Perfectly fine by me (heck, I personally am winning my first start at Prince right now; I tried this month's GOTM and I am doomed to fail miserably...but I am learning). The thing that I mean to say is that I hope both GOTM and WOTM cycle forward in difficulty levels, but staggered. (Cycling WOTM backward through difficulty levels is, IMHO, not a good idea because then you will have both GOTM and WOTM at or near the same difficulty level for ~25% of the time.)
So, for this first month, it is somewhat an anomaly...but perhaps I can suggest the following for consideration:
GOTM: Immortal (current), then jump to Monarch, then cycle up to Diety, then cycle down to Warlord and step up 1 at a time
WOTM: Warlord, then cycle up 1 step in difficulty per month up to Diety, then jump back down.
This avoids your concern until people are more experienced, but also keeps the WOTM and GOTM always a few steps apart on the difficulty ladder.
Sam
ButSam said:
I think each game needs to swap between hard and easy each month. Going from emperor->immortal->deity is just too long a period on the hard games for lower tier players. Just like going noble->prince->monarch (warlord is too low) is way too many months on the easy difficulties for the higher tier players.
DaviddesJ
Deity
Shillen said:
Not really "all". E.g., the pop rushing calculations are changed (fixed). And the way that hammers from chops are applied to production is different.
ewokimpi
A Tribal Force
Several changes I've noted:
Terbuchets have +100% attack against cities, and have a 25% retreat percentage. In the middle ages this makes them a potent city attack force after the city defences have been reduced. Upgrading them with double city raider promotions works nicely.
Chariots have +100% attack against axes. So far, this has not had much effect on my games, probably a larger effect on multiplayer?
Worker stealing: The worker cannot move on the turn it is captured, so if the AI counterattack wins, you lose the worker back.
Heroic Epic can be built when you have a level 5 unit (17 experience points), not level 4. This adjustment increases the relative effect of the Great General when you get one.
The Great General... Still playing around with this. It is cool to upgrade a stack of units with the GG. Especially, not having to pay upgrade costs for the one unit the General is assigned to is nice, and also that unit does not lose experience when upgraded. However I've not played enough games to know about whether in the long run its better to assign the General to a city for 2 extra experience for unit produced there, or for 25% reduced production costs.
The way I've been playing to to use the first GG to upgrade units for early game wars. In the midgame, I've been assigning them to a city for the experience bonus.
AI aggresiveness may have changed. Seems to me, they attack the player more often. Just a notion, not sure it's so.
AI leader changes: can't tell who anyone is without the score card, lots of leader changes. The idea seems to be to balance civs and leaders out, with the old powerhouses reduced in effectiveness, e.g., Qin is now Industrious and Protective, not Industrious and Financial.
My two cents, what I've noticed.
Déja
Beyond the Mod
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2005
- Messages
- 353
Having played a number of warlords games (only one win, unfortunately), I figured I'd throw in my own experiences: (I apologize if this overlaps with any of the links above)
* Great Wall is a great wonder when you're on a large enough map for barbs to be a nuisance. I've found a great tactic to be building the GW early on and then sending all my troops over to demolish the nearest neighbor without fear of a barbarian invasion. Keep in mind, however, that the GW is built along your borders at the START of the turn (even if they grow that same turn) and that their effects only work inside the wall itself, not your cultural borders.
* Great Generals... Being able to add 20 xp to a stack of units may seem awesome, but it frequently doesn't get you very far, unless you have a stack of raw recruits (no barracks, Theology or Vassalage), as 1-2 points doesn't do much when you're 5 points away from a promotion. Some of the GG-only promos are nice (like Tactics), but in general, they're not all that great on the field.
* Barracks only give you +3 xp, now, and you need stables for your mounted units...
* Protective trait is fantastic if you're playing against aggressive AI or barbs as the free Drill I and City Garrison I mean that with a barracks and a civic bonus, your archers and gunpowder units (doesn't apply to machine guns as they're considered siege units) can start out with CGIII, which can make your units almost invincible to all but the most dominatingly superior force.
* On that note, pay close attention to the traits your leader has, as they changed quite a few of them. For example, Catherine is no longer Financial, but Imperialistic (+50% settler production [only on the hammer portion, though], +100% GG emergence)
* Vassal States... To be perfectly honest, the only time I've ever acquired a vassal, it backfired horribly. Capitulation is permanant. I'm not sure if it's a bug, but even when I demanded tribute and my vassal refused, it didn't end the capitulation. Keeping in mind that you can never declare war on a vassal, make sure that you won't have any cities that will be culturally enveloped by your vassal, as they will be in a constant state of revolt, but you can't do anything to reduce your vassal's influence (nor could I gift the cities to him), so be careful with capitulation as it is binding for the rest of the game and any cities you may have captured in their territory are likely to be completely useless.
If I think of anything else, I'll add it to the list, but those are a few notes I've made as I've played Warlords. I hope people find them useful.
* Great Wall is a great wonder when you're on a large enough map for barbs to be a nuisance. I've found a great tactic to be building the GW early on and then sending all my troops over to demolish the nearest neighbor without fear of a barbarian invasion. Keep in mind, however, that the GW is built along your borders at the START of the turn (even if they grow that same turn) and that their effects only work inside the wall itself, not your cultural borders.
* Great Generals... Being able to add 20 xp to a stack of units may seem awesome, but it frequently doesn't get you very far, unless you have a stack of raw recruits (no barracks, Theology or Vassalage), as 1-2 points doesn't do much when you're 5 points away from a promotion. Some of the GG-only promos are nice (like Tactics), but in general, they're not all that great on the field.
* Barracks only give you +3 xp, now, and you need stables for your mounted units...
* Protective trait is fantastic if you're playing against aggressive AI or barbs as the free Drill I and City Garrison I mean that with a barracks and a civic bonus, your archers and gunpowder units (doesn't apply to machine guns as they're considered siege units) can start out with CGIII, which can make your units almost invincible to all but the most dominatingly superior force.
* On that note, pay close attention to the traits your leader has, as they changed quite a few of them. For example, Catherine is no longer Financial, but Imperialistic (+50% settler production [only on the hammer portion, though], +100% GG emergence)
* Vassal States... To be perfectly honest, the only time I've ever acquired a vassal, it backfired horribly. Capitulation is permanant. I'm not sure if it's a bug, but even when I demanded tribute and my vassal refused, it didn't end the capitulation. Keeping in mind that you can never declare war on a vassal, make sure that you won't have any cities that will be culturally enveloped by your vassal, as they will be in a constant state of revolt, but you can't do anything to reduce your vassal's influence (nor could I gift the cities to him), so be careful with capitulation as it is binding for the rest of the game and any cities you may have captured in their territory are likely to be completely useless.
If I think of anything else, I'll add it to the list, but those are a few notes I've made as I've played Warlords. I hope people find them useful.
DaviddesJ
Deity
Déja said:
This is wrong. The effects of the Great Wall apply anywhere within your cultural borders on the same continent.
DaviddesJ
Deity
Déja said:
Well, that's how the author says it works:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4327605&postcount=39
as far as vassal states go...they are not necessarily permanent. This is what I've figured out about them:
Because of the increased maintenance costs of keeping vassal states, I wouldn't recommend trying to use many vassals to achieve domination victories unless it becomes evident that the increased maintenance is less than you would spend keeping those cities yourself.
- A master empire can demand any resource from the vassal, but if the vassal refuses the vassalage ends and war is immediately declared between the two
- Any unit from the master empire can move and heal in the vassal's borders just as they can within their own
- A vassal state automatically shares the diplo status with other countries of the master state
- A master empire pays extra maintenance for each of his cities, the more vassal cities he has
- Vassalage can be agreed upon peacefully, but the vassalage only endures for 10 turns and can be broken at any time afterward by the vassal
- Vassalage forced during war is semi-permanent. It can only end under two conditions: The vassal grows to more than half the land and pop of the master state or loses more than half its original land
- Also, while your vassals count toward the domination land and pop %, you get credit for only half of their pop, the vassal gets the other half of the credit
Because of the increased maintenance costs of keeping vassal states, I wouldn't recommend trying to use many vassals to achieve domination victories unless it becomes evident that the increased maintenance is less than you would spend keeping those cities yourself.
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