norwegianviking
Viking Chief
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2004
- Messages
- 302
OKay fine, you can use electricity without the wheel, but what use would it be? That's why I like the multiple tech requirement idea!
Prehistory
- Thread starter AA-battery
- Start date
Mongoloid Cow
Great Khan
The Assyrians and Babylonians used electricity to gold plate metal, but I never heard of it being used to have any serious usage in pre-modern times. Besides, you can think of the wheel being necessary to transport the large quantities of uranium, wood, special acids, copper, etc. necessary for the production of electricity in the first place. Besides, electricity has no practical use without the wheel as chemicals produce far too little electricity. Try powering you car or house with a tiny AA battery. Not going to happen.
AA-battery
Going and going...
It's kind of funny how you used my username in your last post, Something Cow.
croxis
Chat room op
BACK to topic.
Yes some variations can happen on when and how things are discovered, but lets stop arguing the details, thats firaxis job.
I too am a fan on removing eras and going back to where graphical changes were based on key techs (or mapy multiple techs for the transition, combining the best of both era and non era based trees).
Yes some variations can happen on when and how things are discovered, but lets stop arguing the details, thats firaxis job.
I too am a fan on removing eras and going back to where graphical changes were based on key techs (or mapy multiple techs for the transition, combining the best of both era and non era based trees).
AA-battery
Going and going...
Thats very nice, but we are talking about a prehistoric era. Make your own thread if you want to talk about removing eras. 
Anydangway, does anyone have anymore ideas about what kind of techs and what they should do in my prehistoric era? :shakehead
Anydangway, does anyone have anymore ideas about what kind of techs and what they should do in my prehistoric era? :shakehead
croxis
Chat room op
well don't get all high and mighty and defensive, bloody....
To have a pre-civilization time period would require some game changes. cities would have to remain small and very low production, if at all, and units would be exploring. However the only real reason I see to add such a period is to make the game longer (same reson for future period).
To have a pre-civilization time period would require some game changes. cities would have to remain small and very low production, if at all, and units would be exploring. However the only real reason I see to add such a period is to make the game longer (same reson for future period).
Mongoloid Cow
Great Khan
I don't support the inclusion of a Futuristic era (I mean, Civ has moore to do with history that crappy sci-fi). I also don't see a very strong idea on what the Prehistoric Era is supposed to do anyway, and why one should be included. I mean, you wouldn't be able to build irrigation, mines, roads; you couldn't have big cities; you wouldn't get new units; you wouldn't have access to most resources (so no planning ahead for that in city placement); etc.
Aah, so that's probably why the only battery I could think of was an AA, the thought of an A, AAA, or even a B didn't enter my head.
Pretty funny you didn't use mineAA-battery said:
Aah, so that's probably why the only battery I could think of was an AA, the thought of an A, AAA, or even a B didn't enter my head.
Mongoloid Cow said:
So? That's the whole point of pre-hist: you can't really do that much. If a pre-hist era was added, then it doesn't mean that irrigation and other techs should take as long a time to develop as the ancient era techs. Perhaps they could take only 5 turns or something small. And anyway, looking at the turn sizes when you begin the game, it wouldn't be like you had millenia of being able to do anything.
About planning ahead: planning is exactly what the introduction of pre-hist would enable! Think about it: if you hadn't managed well your civ before it becomes 'civilised' then you're immediately behind everyone else. You'd have to think about your priorities e.g focusing on becoming civilised as quick as you can or getting every pre-hist tech (there would have to be some non-mandatory ones, like in other eras) so that you have a solid foundation for your new civ.
Aussie_Lurker
Deity
OK, first of all I WANT eras to remain in the game! I feel it was such a MASSIVE step forward from Civ2, especially as it gave a TRUE sense of the movement through history. That said, though, I want the transition from era to era to be based on MORE than simple technological development, and instead rely also on economic and sociological developments (like certain # of squares mined, irrigated. Certain # of cities connected by road etc).
Secondly, I think there should be an 'Ancient age', which covers Prehistory and part of the current Ancient age. After Ancient age, you proceed into the 'Classical Age', before entering the Middle Ages.
Lastly, if you lose any of the sociological or economical developments neccessary to proceed to the next age, then you revert to the prior age-losing any techs you have picked up in the new age!
Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
Secondly, I think there should be an 'Ancient age', which covers Prehistory and part of the current Ancient age. After Ancient age, you proceed into the 'Classical Age', before entering the Middle Ages.
Lastly, if you lose any of the sociological or economical developments neccessary to proceed to the next age, then you revert to the prior age-losing any techs you have picked up in the new age!
Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
dh_epic
Cold War Veteran
Pre-history is pre-history for a few reasons:
Reasons Compatible with Civ:
- no writing, history remains oral and sometimes even ends up erased
- no sustainable culture, easily uprooted by conquerers
Reasons incompatible with Civ:
- no farming
- no settlement
The former is actually quite easy. But the latter would be more challenging. Not that I wouldn't want to see it, but like I said, it makes more sense as a pure-mod.
Another thought, an interesting "pre-history era" should be a 5 turn grace period allowing someone to find an ideal spot for their starting city. Map isn't held in memory during this period.
Reasons Compatible with Civ:
- no writing, history remains oral and sometimes even ends up erased
- no sustainable culture, easily uprooted by conquerers
Reasons incompatible with Civ:
- no farming
- no settlement
The former is actually quite easy. But the latter would be more challenging. Not that I wouldn't want to see it, but like I said, it makes more sense as a pure-mod.
Another thought, an interesting "pre-history era" should be a 5 turn grace period allowing someone to find an ideal spot for their starting city. Map isn't held in memory during this period.
majk-iii
Eeh?
Spatula said:
The elctricity thing is over... still u only create the wheel if you NEED a wheel!
KabeDerlin
Prince
Wow. An idea I actually like!
majk-iii said:
Sorry to be pedantic, but I don't think it works like that.....surely it was a case of finding that big round rocks can roll around and then finding a use for it? I know in modern times we're used to people inventing things because we need them, but it often used to work the other way round e.g the Ancient Greeks inventing a very primitive steam engine but not developing it because they couldn't find a use for it.
But yeh, this is a stupid argument really.
I like dh_epic's idea, if an actual pre-hist era wasn't put in then that would be a good change - some kind of consolation prize.
Greek Stud
Prince
On 1BigCommunity, I posted an explanation as to my perception of how pre-history should be determined. I like the ideas here too.
Basically all I said was that you work out of barbarian huts without borders with particuler units,
Hunters: act as warriors slash can bring food back to the hut.
Gatherers: make gardens, outposts, and pathways that are harder to travel than roads.
Priests: Influence units in unity with your tribe.
Nomads: Make huts.
After a certain amount of turns your hut collapses, and turns into a Nomad and Hunter/Gatherers. When you get a high enough population inside your hut, your hut collapses and turns into a Settler.
Racial or ethnic identities would be awesome along these lines. Priests can convert allies or enemies into joining your Civilization, and a little star hovers over them, signfying an enlightenment. If you capsture barbarian huts, some of their units join yours as their Barbarian ethnic identity. If you don't desperse races throughout your cities and expand. Than part of your Civ can revolt and declare civil war, wining overwhelming support from people with the same identy as well as others (units and priests).
Diplomatically, paricular races/ethnicities will favor particular laws. A new Diplomacy screen will be your constitution that says Yea or Nay, which you can change at your discretion (may cause corruption, or "We love the King"). Some examples I gave were:
Slavery (Yea or Nay) Slave units can be made out of drafting or any board unit or capturing slaves.
Sacrificing (Yea or Nay)
Right of Passage
State Religion
All the laws included in the game will appear at different technology discoveries especially having to do with Governments/Philosophies/Religion.
Religion can be manipulated to gain support for particular laws. ex: Yea to Slavery bad in Christianity good in Paganism. Religion can help you win support for war, rescuing a Muslim city that was captured by an Shamanistic State.
Genecide can be a Constitutional Law towards a race/ethnicity or a religion.
If the Constitution continually angers a particular city, a mojority of units that were once your convert to the city name. Like if you are the Romans, and Byzantium is just not liking your conquer the world ideal, their citizens will convert to Byzantines.
Accordance to dropping the Eras, it can be changed to new Architecture or Art technologies. And then you have to reconstuct buildings at a lower sheild cost to accommadate the new style, or new units. That way some of your cities look Byzantine Red with Gold crosses, while others stay in Bulgarian mud huts or Ionic Pagan columns. Citizen or worker units can be affected by how much they produce. If the country declares a Animist State Religion, you can pay a small upgrade to change their dress and they work harder, while Robe wearing Pagans refuse to work at all under a Shamanistic state, wondering into enemy territory as a refugee to be converted into their culture. These units may even automate themselves and distroy roads/mines/irrigation/bridges.
Bridges would be a great add and military tactical play. Archers can attack from accross rivers.
I think this goes along with the Pre-History, but in a variance in gameplay.
What do you all think? Comments?
_____
Um I Posted this under Pre-History thread, and it appeared here. I don't know why?
Basically all I said was that you work out of barbarian huts without borders with particuler units,
Hunters: act as warriors slash can bring food back to the hut.
Gatherers: make gardens, outposts, and pathways that are harder to travel than roads.
Priests: Influence units in unity with your tribe.
Nomads: Make huts.
After a certain amount of turns your hut collapses, and turns into a Nomad and Hunter/Gatherers. When you get a high enough population inside your hut, your hut collapses and turns into a Settler.
Racial or ethnic identities would be awesome along these lines. Priests can convert allies or enemies into joining your Civilization, and a little star hovers over them, signfying an enlightenment. If you capsture barbarian huts, some of their units join yours as their Barbarian ethnic identity. If you don't desperse races throughout your cities and expand. Than part of your Civ can revolt and declare civil war, wining overwhelming support from people with the same identy as well as others (units and priests).
Diplomatically, paricular races/ethnicities will favor particular laws. A new Diplomacy screen will be your constitution that says Yea or Nay, which you can change at your discretion (may cause corruption, or "We love the King"). Some examples I gave were:
Slavery (Yea or Nay) Slave units can be made out of drafting or any board unit or capturing slaves.
Sacrificing (Yea or Nay)
Right of Passage
State Religion
All the laws included in the game will appear at different technology discoveries especially having to do with Governments/Philosophies/Religion.
Religion can be manipulated to gain support for particular laws. ex: Yea to Slavery bad in Christianity good in Paganism. Religion can help you win support for war, rescuing a Muslim city that was captured by an Shamanistic State.
Genecide can be a Constitutional Law towards a race/ethnicity or a religion.
If the Constitution continually angers a particular city, a mojority of units that were once your convert to the city name. Like if you are the Romans, and Byzantium is just not liking your conquer the world ideal, their citizens will convert to Byzantines.
Accordance to dropping the Eras, it can be changed to new Architecture or Art technologies. And then you have to reconstuct buildings at a lower sheild cost to accommadate the new style, or new units. That way some of your cities look Byzantine Red with Gold crosses, while others stay in Bulgarian mud huts or Ionic Pagan columns. Citizen or worker units can be affected by how much they produce. If the country declares a Animist State Religion, you can pay a small upgrade to change their dress and they work harder, while Robe wearing Pagans refuse to work at all under a Shamanistic state, wondering into enemy territory as a refugee to be converted into their culture. These units may even automate themselves and distroy roads/mines/irrigation/bridges.
Bridges would be a great add and military tactical play. Archers can attack from accross rivers.
I think this goes along with the Pre-History, but in a variance in gameplay.
What do you all think? Comments?
_____
Um I Posted this under Pre-History thread, and it appeared here. I don't know why?
AA-battery
Going and going...
I will keep that in mind but I do have a short temper. Anydangway getting back to the topic, I'm not quite sure how these priests will work, Greek stud. Will they remain in the game after prehistoric era? Priest sounds like a dull description. How about shamans? groucho
I think I better explain my question seeing as it sparked off a mini-flame:
Why do you need a tech tree? Becuase some techs really do come off other ones, however, not ALL civs had all techs. The Incas never had wheels! Not because they didn't know what round was, but they didn't have wheeled transport. They used completely different ways of doing things.
What would be great is if you don't have such a structured tech tree ... so the question comes back on itself, why do you need wheels to know about electricity. Perhaps if the Incas were able to continue evolving technologically, they would have got to electricity without a single wheel ... perhaps ... perhaps not. But the point is, don't assume, civ is not history, it is about lots and lots of what ifs.
Free your mind.
About prehistory: No. What does it add? A short phase of little expansion and needing to get all those same techs anyway. Especially if you have such a limited idea of tech building on tech. I bet you are now going to argue that you need mining and road working to get Bronze working or alphabet.
Why do you need a tech tree? Becuase some techs really do come off other ones, however, not ALL civs had all techs. The Incas never had wheels! Not because they didn't know what round was, but they didn't have wheeled transport. They used completely different ways of doing things.
What would be great is if you don't have such a structured tech tree ... so the question comes back on itself, why do you need wheels to know about electricity. Perhaps if the Incas were able to continue evolving technologically, they would have got to electricity without a single wheel ... perhaps ... perhaps not. But the point is, don't assume, civ is not history, it is about lots and lots of what ifs.
Free your mind.
About prehistory: No. What does it add? A short phase of little expansion and needing to get all those same techs anyway. Especially if you have such a limited idea of tech building on tech. I bet you are now going to argue that you need mining and road working to get Bronze working or alphabet.
