Prevent culture flip

[Chuot]

Quick question: One of my 12 size cities has a chance of flip over because it's closed to Tokyo which has quite a few wonders. I'm wondering how to prevent it, will "I love President day" prevent it? I don't want to lose that city. Please give me your advice.

Sorry if there is a thread about this somewhere but I can't find it since the search function has been disabled.

 

[Shadylookin]

this is what they have in the faq

How many units do I need to suppress a culture flip?

the full formula (this is from Sorenson, who is responsible for this programming):

P=[(F+T)*Cc*H*(Cte/Cty) - G]/D

where:
P = probability that it will flip this turn
F = # foreigners, with resistors counting double
T = # working tiles under foreign control (out of the max of 21, no matter what the cultural boundaries are atm)
Cc = 2 if foreign civ has more local culture than you, 1 otherwise
H = .5 for WLTKD, 2 for disorder, 1 otherwise
Cte = Total culture of the foreign civ
Cty = Total culture of your civ
G = # garrison units
D = factor based on relative distance to capitals

Now reorganizing this gives the required garrison as:
G = (F+T)*Cc*H*(Cte/Cty)

As you can see there is a nice set of extra factors there. Now when you take a city Cc is likely to be 2 for a long while. And then there is the culture ratio. And this is a true ratio so it could be 1.1:1, 2:1, 5:1 depending on how much culture each of you has

The national culture factor is probably the reason why some seem to have no problem with culture flips and others do. Since if you have strong national culture, this value might be approaching 1/2, which can keep the garrison down at a 1:1 ratio. However, if conversely the AI civ in question has double your culture, you are going to need 4 units for every foreigner and tile to prevent a flip.
Thank you, etj4Eagle !!!

 

[Chuot]

Thanks a lot, your help is veyr informative and useful, Ijust built a cathedral to have a few more culture point, I believe my city is now safe, hopefully .

 

[Ville]

It can still flip if you have bad luck

 

[Chuot]

The trick I have just found to prevent it is that, make any diplomacy with any civ before that happened. I don't know if reload the save game considering cheat to you guys, but I do it frequently.

i.e, when my city got flip, I reload the previous saved game and declare war to Mongols (the city was going to flip is American city). The next turn, nothing happen .

 

[ivory]

Yeah, reloading like that is the worst imaginable way of cheating. That way you can prevent anything!
edit: stupid speling

 

[Coburn]

i really don't like the way the culture flipping aspect of civ3 is designed when cities are captured.
I have marched a dozen units deep into the enemy's territory, taken out a key city and then positioned the units to defend the city till reinforcements arrive. Then next turn the city flips and I lose all the units. Grand strategy up in smoke! Hate that - as if Napolean lost Moscow because of catherdals in the city!
This flipping aspect makes it more difficult for a small army to take advantage of surprise and good tactical sense to win against a larger adversary. Reduces the game to one of incremental moves (zzzzzzz). Perhaps a better way to model resistance is to limit mobility of the attacking units within the radius of the captured. Another way is to reduce the defense points on units holding onto a recently captured city which is later subject to counterattack. I never minded the old Civ2 feature when resistance fighters would emerge after a city is captured.

 

[Shabbaman]

Well, with PTW you can disable culture flipping.
Chuot, this thread contains a flip probability calculator.

 

[jeffelammar]

@Coburn - I have to say that I disagree with your analysis.

First it isn't that there were cathedrals in the city. It is that the citizens of the city are so proud of their civilization that they are willing to fight. Look at many of the modern day occupations. Think of the resisters as the people of Chechnya. (Or what's going on in Iraq) Active combat between your Military and the people of the city.

I also disagree about it punishing good tactical sense. Any real world military action requires management of the lines of battle. Any unit (or army) that is completely surrounded is cut of from supplies and can be picked off at their opponent's leisure. This is why cultural boundaries play such a role in culture flipping. If you incrementally capture territory much less of the border is in enemy culture.

 

[Coburn]

Hello jeffelammar
terrific points - thanks for that
there is much sense in what you say
but while I can recognize the points you make, they do not hold to the exclusion of mine.
You mention Chechnya - yet russian army units continue to occupy
that territory even after a decade of armed resistance
Army units have to be physically ejected, destroyed, desert or they mutiny. Civ3 obviously assumes the latter 2 options - which happen - but it is pretty clumsy in how it handles it.
You made a very good point about managing lines of battle. The scenario that i outlined - marching a large number of units deep into enemy territory and taking out sites of high strategic importance - is difficult to implement in Civ3 due to culture flipping (thanks to Shabbaman regarding developments in PTW, I play vanilla). In terms of history, I cite Sherman's march to the South, or the recent drive to capture Baghdad (which argubly could still flip).
Interesting that these two campaigns seem to generate culture flipping type effects (demoralisation of the Conferates and Iraqis) that benefitted the invader.

 

[Shadylookin]

I raze nearly all of the captured cities, not worth the bother defending them if they have a probability of flipping i'd rather take a turn or 2 make a settler then build a new city(I don't do diplo victories so everyone can hate me for all i care) I would only keep them if i can go way behind enemy lines take out the major cities and cut them off with there border cities then I would take the border cities.

 

[The Last Conformist]

If I'm reading that formula a-rightly, being at war or not with the civ in question is not an issue. This seems kinda surprising, since from my in-game experience, it seems being at war with the original owner civ increases the chance dramatically. This'd be all due to the Stop the Aggression Against Our Mother Country effect?