Privateer questions?

[denyd]

Does anybody ever build these?

Do they need support gold under Republic / Democracy?

Can they bombard?

Is the AI really unaware of who they belong to?

Can they blockade a port?

Does the blockade include trades to you (the actual owner of the blockading ships)?

 

[budweiser]

I built one once and the ai came along and sank it! We were not even at war at the time. I guess they need to stay in port or be escorted.

 

[Smellincoffee]

The AI sees them as a threat, and so attacks them- I guess they view privateers as a barbarian ship. I build them all the time.

They need support as well, but can't bombard, unless you mod the game like I did. By blockade, do you mean simply denying a path of water to the AI- you know, four or five ships at the entrance to water passage so they have to destroy one of your ships- or do you mean by actually peventing trade?

I don't think they could deny trade, but more experienced players might've noticed this. Can you block trade routes with privateers?

 

[MummyMan]

I build them, they do need support, they cannot bombard, the AI really is unaware, they can blockade, i'm not sure about the trades thing though. Also, the ai can freely destroy them. Escorting is cheap i think, though effective. Its also unnecessary, its not worth it to provide an escort.

Now that your questions are answered, i'll give my 2 cents on privateers. With the standard rules, they're pretty useless, and i wouldn't build em with the standard rules. I modded mine in the rules to be as strong offensively as the frigate, but weak defensively. I think i made them faster too. Maybe a little more shields, i'm not sure. I think its really fun, especially if you aren't in a position to go to war, its fun to skirmish a bit. I've found that it isn't unbalanced.

 

[zorven]

Originally posted by denyd

Is the AI really unaware of who they belong to?

Yes they are. According to Bamspeedy's AI Attitude article, it will worsen their Attitude towards you. It doesn't say if this is for each attack, or only the first. It also doens't say if it is temporary or permanent. However, if I remember correctly, the AI civ cannot use this as a reason to declare war on you.

 

[redstoner]

If Privateers don't have "nationality markings" (according to the book, anyway) how does the AI know who they belong to and why would it matter? I always assumed they were like Pirate ships and you could use them to attack the AI without any consequences. If the AI knows who they belong to and using them supposedly affects their attitude towards you, what's the point of them then?

 

[benstandby]

Using privateers does not affect AI civ attitudes toward your civ EXCEPT the part of attitude that is affected by reputation (I think).

Its a binary proposition, though (1 or 0). Build a privateer (1), and you are marked as a "piracy-sponsoring nation". Refrain from building any (0), and you are NOT seen as a "piracy-sponsoring nation".

In other words, AI civs don't "know" that a given privateer is comissioned by your government. They DO know that your government has a history of giving armed ships to groups of "thugs".

AI attitude is unaffected by the use of privateers. Your civ's rep IS affected by BUILDING them, not using them.

Personally, I use them in groups of 3 to chase away enemy caravels and galleons that I think are trying to colonize spots I want to colonize. If you can at least damage the transport, it'll turn around and go home.

I actually do use them to try to stop an AI civ's ability to trade by blockading. I have no idea if it works or not.

My assesment of unmodded privateers:
(if you use them right)

 

[Krayzeenbk]

If you build a large number of Hidden nationality units, the AI will not like you at all. The AI will also tend to get furious if you are the only one doing it and the hidden nationality units are causing problems (such as pillaging or bombarding). Sometimes, the AI will build its own hidden nationality units and attack you with them, but they have never done this first in my experience. I refrain from adding, modding, or using such units because they are totally unbalanced and give the player an enormous advantage.

 

[zorven]

benstandby - I think you are intermingling attitude and reputation. Bamspeedy tested AI attitude extensively, and he says using a Privateer affects the AI attitude towards you. I tend to believe what he has said. AI attitude is reflected by them being "Gracious" or "Annoyed". Reputation is completely seperate from this. Reputation is only affected by how well you live up to your obligations in trade or diplomatic agreements. Once you have a bad reputation, you will find it difficult to make deals where you give something over 20 turns.

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by denyd
Does anybody ever build these?

Yes, I build them and lot and lot of them. They are perfect for blocking a port and reduce enemy city down to size 1. Here is a screenshot of that: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Moonsinger_ad2050-3.jpg

Please note that all those private ships and all other ships on the on the screen were mine and I was blocking off the English capital and reduced it peacefully (without war) down to size 1.

 

[Hellfire]

What I don't get is:

1) If they are weak and the AI can attack them without war, what's the point of them being a blockade unit? Sure they can go into enemy territory but the AI, if its navy is strong enough, can blow them away. If they are so weak that they cannot put up a fight, then what's the point of blockading them anyway?

2) Why not blockade outside their territory with decent ships? In Moonsingers example, she needed 18 privateers (why 18 I'm not clear on, wouldn't 9 do?). I also count 22 squares outside of the territory, and she already has about 8-9 AEGIS cruisers. Why not build cruisers and just sit them in "international waters?" They are more useful if you have to divert them away.

 

[zorven]

Originally posted by Hellfire

2) Why not blockade outside their territory with decent ships? In Moonsingers example, she needed 18 privateers (why 18 I'm not clear on, wouldn't 9 do?). I also count 22 squares outside of the territory, and she already has about 8-9 AEGIS cruisers. Why not build cruisers and just sit them in "international waters?" They are more useful if you have to divert them away.

Your units cannot cause a blockade unless you are at war with them. However, Privateers will always cause a blockade because the AI is always at war with Privateers.

 

[Starving Poet]

And she is using 20 privateers so that the towns citizens can't works those squares. This is a very good strategy for any coastal town you plan on invading in the future. As far as privateers go, it's not quality but quantity. As long as you have enough ships to cause 1 single hp of damage to the AI's fleet, they will *always* retreat.

Once war starts you can easily work in fast ground units / explorers to pillage all workable tiles around the harbor cities, thereby killing their navy. And if you're playing an archipalego, any trade with foreign civs. I recently played a game with a friend and destroyed his entire infrastructure with a 75+ wave of explorers and untold numbers of privateers.

 

[Starving Poet]

In addition, it looks like Moonsinger was just milking the last civ anyways. I didn't even notice it was the capitol she was blockading.

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by Starving Poet
And she is using 20 privateers so that the towns citizens can't works those squares. This is a very good strategy for any coastal town you plan on invading in the future. As far as privateers go, it's not quality but quantity. As long as you have enough ships to cause 1 single hp of damage to the AI's fleet, they will *always* retreat.

Bingo! You just read my mind. Thanks for answering the question for me when I'm not here.

 

[benstandby]

Originally posted by zorven
benstandby - I think you are intermingling attitude and reputation. Bamspeedy tested AI attitude extensively, and he says using a Privateer affects the AI attitude towards you. I tend to believe what he has said. AI attitude is reflected by them being "Gracious" or "Annoyed". Reputation is completely seperate from this. Reputation is only affected by how well you live up to your obligations in trade or diplomatic agreements. Once you have a bad reputation, you will find it difficult to make deals where you give something over 20 turns.

I know all of this. But I think that there is a portion of each AI civ's attitude toward you that is affected by your reputation. But thanks for talking down to me.


kidding

 

[zorven]

Sorry, it is hard to know what everybody does and does not know....

Anyway, I don't think there is a connection, so now we just need someone to do some testing

 

[redstoner]

So if Privateers affect the AI's attitude towards you, even though using them doesn't cause war, what then is the point to the unit at all? Why have it not marked with nationality colors if the AI still knows who it belongs to? I thought the point of Privateers was to build them and wreak havoc on the enemy without any affect, whether it's war or whatever. This is another aspect of this game that is confusing and annoys the heck out of me.

 

[andvruss]

A strategy I have tried is to build 1 privateer. Every single AI naval unit that can reach it will come and try to sink it. I then lured them into a bay. When a large number of ships entered in, I blocked it off by moving 2 destroyers in the entrance and moving the privateer into a nearby naval city. However, they naval units just fortified themselves instead of disbanding. I guess this tactic would work for something...

 

[Starving Poet]

Interesting side note, I've never seen the AI disband a unit. If it needs to get rid of them, they'll just declare war on somebody.