Professional Army and Black Market

[Spartan300]

i think if you have too many kinds of barbs it will get too difficult to differentiate (and remember the makers of civ want to sell to new players so will need to keep things moderately simple)
i agree to leaders 'developing' from groups of barbs, every so often there is a cluster of barbarian cities (or maybe when barbarians capture a city a leader should be 'nominated')

 

[Camikaze]

Different barbarian factions (if you will) would only be as hard to differentiate as Civs are.

 

[Spartan300]

so we would have in essence sub races?

 

[Camikaze]

Well they wouldn't have to be different races, just different entities. You could tell them apart because they would be clearly delineated on the map.

 

[Spartan300]

ok so we have civs with borders, how do these work?
are we talking about barbarians now or arms brokers? or 2 seperate things?
if it is arms brokers perhaps capturing a barb leader (something that could be brought back from civ2) would give you info to an arms broker
workable?

 

[Camikaze]

Well if the barbarians are arms brokers, then we are talking about both. What I'm saying is not very different to what is currently in the game. You can tell the Barbarians from every other civilization, right? And there borders work in the same way as every other civilization. This would be the same, but there would be different barbarian entities (shown by different colours, or something), and you would be able to negotiate with them.

 

[Spartan300]

sub races then?
or can a barbarian state aspire to become a civ?
if barbs stay essentially as the are but you can negotiate with them then yes i am for it.
so what options do we want? raid city, raid civ, attack city, attack civ, sell units, buy units, sell city, buy city, Appartis (protection raquet)

create undercover supply route of units from me to X civ.

what else? bomb city in the later game?

 

[miramira]

The black market is corruption, a police state/military junta would almost certainally have somesort of military conscription!

 

[Camikaze]

sub races then?
or can a barbarian state aspire to become a civ?
if barbs stay essentially as the are but you can negotiate with them then yes i am for it.

Well essentially the idea (or at least my idea) is that there will be different barbarian entities. So, each of those would act as they do now, but there would be more that one of them. And then you could negotiate with them.

so what options do we want? raid city, raid civ, attack city, attack civ, sell units, buy units, sell city, buy city, Appartis (protection raquet)

create undercover supply route of units from me to X civ.

what else? bomb city in the later game?

The idea thus far (IIRC) was to have two major options; buy units as mercenaries into your forces, or buy barbarian cooperation. The first of these would involve the barbs becoming part of your army, and fighting under your flag, but you would face the prospect of them turning back into barbs if you did not meet the barbarian demands, or if they were unhappy, or something. The second of these would mean that they acted under the barbarian flag, therefore autonomously, but did your bidding, so you could tell them 'attack city X', amongst other things, but no-one would know that they were acting as your proxy. Think of privateers of the land.

 

[Spartan300]

like the idea of on land privateers.
ok, it i common for mercenarie civs to turn on you or pillage your land even in your pay, so i think you should be able to loan units with a sliding scale of loyalty, for instance barbs will join you for 100gold but will likely do there own thing short of attacking your army/city. but if you offer them say 200gold they will be more inclined to do as you ask.
i think this would maybe be the way to attack it but i do think we need a black market trade of sorts (how do you think the taliban aquire modern am***an/ru***an weapons?)

 

[Camikaze]

Well yeah, that would work, although I do think it would be better to go for a system whereby if you buy mercenaries, you have full control of them. The problem would come if the barbarians attempted to extort money out of you; if you don't comply they could withdraw their mercenaries or attack you.

 

[qwerty25]

You've suggested trading resources and gold to the barbarians ( mercenaries). The problem with that is most likely large empires would have more resources and so would be able to use the barbarians more effectively. This would only make the leading civilization a quicker path to winning. What if we add that whenever you give the barbarians gold or horses, they will get slightly stronger against the leading civs.

 

[Terrance888]

Maybe make barbs hate larger empires/perfer smaller ones?

 

[qwerty25]

Maybe make barbs hate larger empires/perfer smaller ones?

Yes, but only if the ratio is large enough.

Example: Civ1 score: 300 Civ2 score: 350
Then the barbarians won't change.

Example: Civ1 score: 300 Civ2 score: 600
Then the barbarians will attack civ 2 slightly more.

Justifiable real world reason: Should have more money.
This idea might be better in another thread.

 

[Camikaze]

You've suggested trading resources and gold to the barbarians ( mercenaries). The problem with that is most likely large empires would have more resources and so would be able to use the barbarians more effectively. This would only make the leading civilization a quicker path to winning. What if we add that whenever you give the barbarians gold or horses, they will get slightly stronger against the leading civs.

This is a very true and important point, but I think that's more an issue with ICS and larger empires being economically superior than with the idea of trading for mercenaries itself.

Edit: Just noticed- necro.

 

[Rusty Edge]

This is a very true and important point, but I think that's more an issue with ICS and larger empires being economically superior than with the idea of trading for mercenaries itself.

Edit: Just noticed- necro.

Now that we're talking about Civ 6, this should be re-examined.