Project Evaluation: Citizen Discussion

[eyrei]

Project Evaluation

The way I see it, we have 4 major projects going on. I need to know what priority to place on these, as they are all rather costly. I must caution that it is my opinion that an even balance of all four will result in none of them being particularly effective. This is not to say that those given the lowest priority will be completely ignored, but that they will receive funds only when it is not at the expense of the higher priorities. The projects are:

1. Wonder Building: Most of the costs related to this project will be in the appropriation of our income on the tax/science/luxury slider. The effectiveness of this project is heavily dependant on fast research, so it will limit the amount of money for other projects in that way.

2. Military Upgrades: Our military is 90% obsolete, and therefore we must begin upgrading our units. An upgrade from pikeman to rifleman costs 100 gold. We have a lot of pikemen, so this project will be very expensive.

3. Cultural Assault: This project has already received a great deal of funding over the past weeks. However, most rushes of improvements at this state are expensive, as most cities already have temples and libraries. I believe it costs around 400 gold to rush a university after one turn of work.

4. Asphinxia: The recent construction of the Forbidden Palace in Thebes has made many cities in Asphinxia quite productive. However, because of the terrain, some do not generate many shields. Rushing of marketplaces and universities to improve our economic and scientific output, as well as Cathedrals in some of the larger cities to improve happiness are needed. Of the four projects, this is the only one that will give us an immediate return on money spent.

Please discuss. I will post a poll on Sunday.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

I'm going to sound like a broken record here but...


I would prioritize the following:

Wonder Building is most important, but only for ToE and Hoover. I would head down the Electricity - Electronics path, with a side stop on Replaceable Parts after electricity. Giving up on the unnecessary Universal Suffrage would enable us to accomplish priority 2...

...Upgrade of the military. We are not too many turns away from being at a serious disadvantage. The focus of these expenditures should be defensive in nature, following the completion of a Calvary based rapid deployment reserve force.

CAP - should be moved to priority four, as in most cases as the goal of this program has been largely completed.

Asphinxia - Moved to Priority three and rush build marketplaces as needed. They will provide immediate help financially, with no maintenance cost due to Smith's. Meanwhile, look for more luxury trade opportunities. It may be cheaper to find more luxuries than it is to rush expensive Cathedrals.

Bill
...in PDX

 

[Curufinwe]

Eyrei, it will cost 396 after 1 sheild is produced, if they produce more sheilds than they will require less gold, and few cities have terrible corruption, every city has a libary, so no more building or rushing those.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by curufinwe
Eyrei, it will cost 396 after 1 sheild is produced, if they produce more sheilds than they will require less gold, and few cities have terrible corruption, every city has a libary, so no more building or rushing those.

Most of the cities targetted for participation in the cultural assault are near the border, which means they are often undeveloped and produce few shields. Thus the price for rushing will decrease very slowly.

 

[Curufinwe]

Then the slow process of building shall have to occur in those places, while the funds are being gathered for a rush.

 

[Shaitan]

Slow building for the CAP program isn't a viable option. Greek culture is already overwhelming much of the CAP initiative. We need to invest in our borders or prepare to watch them move back towards us.

That said, I'd vote on staggering the initiatives instead of taking them as complete items.

1. Wonder building - Hoover Dam is the critical item here. TOE is just a quick step towards Hoover Dam. Burn to US then step back on this program, prebuilding towards Hoover. Make TOE a secondary consideration.

2. CAP - Solidify the borders against Greece.

3. Upgrade military units - get modern units in each of the border cities.

4. Asphynxia - Rush marketplaces where feasible and return warrants it (big cities).

5. CAP - Push borders in Cyrus and against Greece in general.

6. Upgrade military units - complete upgrades.

7. Evaluate new wonder, upgrade and CAP programs based on new techs and whatever has happened in the game to this point.

 

[Cyc]

Another good discussion Eyrei.

I will have to second Bill's priorities here. Shaitan has a good idea, but I don't think we should downplay the ToE (we can concentrate on more than one Wonder at a time), and as much as I am for Culture and a Cultural win, I think CAP should take a backseat for a while.

Now I'm going to sound like the broken record. One thing not mentioned in Eyrei's priorities is growth. Growth will facilitate all four of these areas. When a city grows, there is more shield production for Wonders and more income for military upgrades.
It will help develop Asphinxia in the direction you are looking for. And a steady growth of our population, when kept content or happy, means a steady growth of our Culture. The more happy and smart people we have, the stronger our Culture will be. This is why we shouldn't leave sanitation out of the picture.

 

[donsig]

Cyc has a good point about growth and it should be included in this discussion. That said, I would make growth a low priority now. Wonder building is a top priority but I would not spend any gold on the project. I also would ease up on the science rate so as to guarantee a specific income (say, 50 gold/turn surplus). With no income there will be no budget allocations no matter what we decide the priorities to be!

I would split our income between CAP and the military. We have already seen the Greek borders expand to the point of taking our gems near Cyrus in Kashmir. CAP must be funded, especially if the consensus is for a cultural win!

The military must also have funds though the modernization of our defensive forces can be an on going project. As we get our rail network up it will become easier to ensure that our best defenders are stationed near the borders.

I must add my voice to those who do not think universal suffrage is absolutely necessary. Hoover would certainly be extremely beneficial but right now it is theory of evolution that gives us the hope of gaining a tech lead while maintaining a hefty income. We are already behind Greece and Iroquois in tech and if one of them build theory of evolution I do not see how we will achieve technological parity.

Given this line of reasoning I do not think we can afford to rush improvements in Asphinxia. The forbidden palace is there so we should let those cities build their improvements without rushing.

 

[eyrei]

Our cities do continue to grow, though currently their max pop is 12. It would seriously slow down our wonder program to research sanititation, so I suggest we attempt to buy this from the AI.

The science rate will be set at 60%, giving us insustrialization in 8 turns and +77 gpt. That should allow us money for whatever we wish to spend it on.

I must again disagree that Universal Suffrage is not important, and must again reiterate that I fully expect us to build all three wonders. The AI will challenge us most for Universal Suffrage, so that should be concentrated on first.

 

[chiefpaco]

I back Eyrei's plan to attempt all wonders. None come without great benefits to our nation. That said, I think many of them can be pre-built at this point so I am unsure on how beneficial a great deal of rushing factories would be.

Here is my comment on the other areas:
Military Upgrades
I fully support the maximum upgrades for border cities, especially in Asphinxia and Kashmir and Justinian. After that, I don't see upgrading pikemen being a high priority project. As soon as we get rails, our inner cities will be easier to defend and the difference between having 1 pikeman in a town as opposed to 1 rifleman in a town is small. Any force that intends to attack a town in, say Ameri, will not come without warning and will have to land, giving us time to react.

Cultural Assault
I agree it will get expensive. At this point, the gold spent may not be worth the turns saved. I look forward to careful consideration on these rushed projects.

Asphinxia
It will take time to build this place up but the high population counts there should help. Again, I would not like to generalize on a rule or a case where we could rush, but take it case by case. I think many cities there can build improvements on their own in a reasonable time. Often, I find that rushing is most valuable (in terms of gold spent/turns saved) away from the productive centres, but will not object to strong cases for certain projects.

Sanitation
I'm not sure why this critical technology is placed under "will buy". Why we can't at least assure research after Electronics, I am not sure. Must we depend on others to discover it? What if they do not?

Summary:
I would like to first assure our borders are well defended and a strike force ready to counter surprise assaults. Rushing may be costly at this point so I would prefer a case-by-case analysis.

 

[Chieftess]

What about the National Employment Program? We really need some workers of our own, as we are getting close to Industrialization.

 

[Strider]

chiefpaco
I'm not sure why this critical technology is placed under "will buy". Why we can't at least assure research after Electronics, I am not sure. Must we depend on others to discover it? What if they do not?

The current is set up to get motorized transportation as fast as possible. Falcon posted a proposal and I put it with a few other proposal inside of a poll. Falcon's proposal won. It was posted in the first post of the poll so all citizens should have know what was in it. It did not include sanation so I did not put sanation.